Thomas Virzi Collection?

I am thoroughly convinced that they are the same coin, but would appreciate the opinion of other CT members.

I hope the explanation is that which is simplest and easiest: that Owen simply forgot to mark it as sold, or that he uploaded the wrong image for his current listing, or that he messed up his database and forgot that he had already sold this coin and relisted it.

A Vcoins seller like Owen would not intentionally list a coin for sale which he does not have.

 

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Sadly, two coins being identical is never a good thing ...

=> JBG, I'm curious that you're telling us that you have your sweet coin in-hand and it cost you $275 (correct?) ... but you're also saying that Edgar Owen is currently selling the identical coin for $475?

... I hope TIF is correct and Edgar only thinks he has that coin in his possession and/or maybe you should go check your coin-drawer and make sure that you still have that coin in-hand!!

 

Sorry about my lack of clarity...I confused everybody.

I just checked the old spreadsheet and I paid $375 in 2015 for this coin (I admit the provenance got me) and I still have this coin.

Edgar has this very similar if not identical coin now for sale on his Vcoins site for $450. TIF has me convinced it's a simple "wrong photo" mistake and he doesn't actually have that coin because I do. Edgar doesn't know this yet. We hope!

 

I'd be a nightmare as a dealer, trying to deal with organization. Simple things-- like a system for naming your images-- can cause real problems. If the images are saved with names like Lucania-Metapontum-AE14.jpg and you get another of the type, it would be very easy to mix up the images when loading them onto the webstore. I bet that's what happened here.

 

If they're not two pics of the same coin, then you've got a much bigger problem on your hands, cast forgeries. Let us know what Edgar has to say.

 

Edgar replies...


No, it's sold. VCoins is out of date. All current inventory is at http://EdgarLOwen.com


Edgar

 

Phew!! That's a relief.

 

Cool.

The coin certainly doesn't look cast in either image.

 

I'm keeping the coin and the provenance.

 

It's been mentioned before that some Vcoins sellers just don't seem to keep their stock lists very up to date at all. I really wish they would. My Virzi coin which I posted earlier in this thread still shows up on Owen's vcoins site too. Listed for an eye-popping $450!

 

My only Virzi coin:

Sicily, Syracuse. Hieron II, 275 – 216 BC
Æ27. 15.19 grams
Obverse: Diademed head left.
Reverse: IERWNOS, Horseman galloping right with lance held forward. Monogram below.

Provenance:
CNG Electronic Auctions 144, lot 38, $98, July 2006
Garth R. Drewry Collection
Malloy Auction 17, December 1980, lot 470
Thomas Virzi Collection, 1846

 

Although neither of mine are Virzi, I have the Heiron II bronze, and what appears a much scarcer 1/2 bronze, bull butting in RIGHT direction... NEITHER were $450, and COMBINED they were not $450...

Curious about the value of the provenance... (?)

 

I think it's a nice provenance, but others who don't care at all for it will say the value is zero. Anyway, a seller can sticker whatever price he likes on a coin, but you get a better idea of what the market thinks its worth when it comes up in an auction. When my Virzi did, in a small mixed lot, the average price I paid for each coin in the lot was about a tenth of the original $450 asked for that one coin.

 

Yeah, provenance in this category (ancient coins) makes little sense. Just because you can trace it back a few generations of owners does not really help with authenticity.

 

While provenance doesnt mean much to me, it does to many others. Often published coins carry a high premium. I have seen collectors and dealers paying many multiples of value for the simple reason it was in a well known collection/book. I can see why they place that value, but I dont.

 

There are many ex-Virsi coins that Edgar sold through CNG that are still listed on Edgar's site. I own some of them. He just hasn't updated his Vcoins site.

There are many Virzi coins that weren't sold by Malloy or Leu, but you'll have to examine the original plates to confirm.

 

The Metapontum bronze . I have the Virzi plates as well as Malloy, Leu 6 and some line drawings by Ignazio Virzi and I cannot find the coin in any of these references.
The Syracuse 'eagle left' is Virzi plate 60 coin 1767. Virzi plates are notorious for 'tricky' numbers as plenty of incorrect numbers within the plates.The actual plate 'pages' are correct at 1-77.

 

The Metapontum bronze . I have the Virzi plates as well as Malloy, Leu 6 and some line drawings by Ignazio Virzi and I cannot find the coin in any of these references.
The Syracuse 'eagle left' is Virzi plate 60 coin 1767. Virzi plates are notorious for 'tricky' numbers as plenty of incorrect numbers within the plates.The actual plate 'pages' are correct at 1-77.

 

Leu Catalog Auction 6: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bd6t5373794w/f17.item

Malloy Catalog: https://archive.org/details/auctionsalexviim00mall/page/n15/mode/2up

Hirsch

• 1907 Sale XIX Catalog https://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/hirsch_jacob1907_11_11/
• 1912 Sale XXXII Catalog https://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/hirsch_jacob1912_11_14

Coins listed on Edgar Owens Site

"THE 1907 THOMAS VIRZI PROVENANCE OF OUR SICILIAN GREEK COINS

During the late 19th century when he worked at Jacob Hirsch, the pre-eminent Munich coin dealer, Thomas Virzi put together perhaps the finest and most extensive collection of Greek bronze coins of Magna Graecia ever assembled. There is an extremely rare book from circa 1907 or before with photographs of 2238 coins which is the only record of the complete collection. Hirsch himself sold some coins from the collection in his sale XIX, 11 November 1907. Bank Leu sold 300 of the best coins in Zurich, Auction 6, 1973. I myself was fortunate to acquired nearly 500 of the best remaining and Alex Malloy dispersed the low end in 1980. The Thomas Virzi provenance of coins on this page is noted in the descriptions and dates back to the 19th century and is the finest possible. The provenance of all coins from the Virzi collection should be verifiable by reference to the original photographs."

• Spain & Italy: https://edgarlowen.com/a46cg.shtml
• Sicily: Abakainon-Mytistratos: https://edgarlowen.com/a46cg2.shtml
• Sicily: Panormos-Tyndaris, Islands, Punic: https://edgarlowen.com/a46cg3.shtml
• Misc & Unattributed: https://edgarlowen.com/a46cg5.shtml

 

Wow—thank you!