This star brought a tear to my eye....

Source? What is "it?"

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

OK, I was able to trace the quote back to this article: http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2004/092004/09292004/1520547/printer_friendly

I wonder if there was discussion about this on the WG forums at the time (I have to believe there was . . .).

Still not clear to me what the "it" is in the quote from the SS spokesperson. What was she asked? Was she commenting on advertising?

 

Yes, 475 prohibits advertising. The question becomes is putting wg.com on a bill advertising? It definitely was considered that way back when wg.com was selling stamps. Since they've stopped, it's grey. Again, as far as I can tell, it's like going 60 in a 55.

 

This was also addressed during the Secret Service investigation BettyBoop refered to. At that time (early in Where's George's history), Hank (the guy who owns/runs the site) had begun to sell stamps with the URL, more as a convenience that as a money-making operation. But the Secret Service informed him that if he sold the stamps, then it was a violation of 475. So he no longer sells stamps, and officially, the site does not actively endorse the marking of bills. However, others who choose to write or stamp the url on the site are not advertising, as they have no official affiliation with the site.

edit: I just want to add that I'm not in any way officially connected to the site, and what I've described here is just my understanding of events.

 

Actually, according to the Federal Reserve, that's precisely what it means; the person who runs the Where's George website has been told this directly from representatitves of the Federal Reserve when checking to make sure what he's doing is legal.

Are you saying I shouldn't be allowed to paint my car green because the person I might sell it to later might not like that color? As long as it's my property it's nobody's business but my own what I do with it. Call that selfish if you like... call it inconsiderate... but as long as it still belongs to me I say nobody's considerations but my own are relevant. When someone else owns it then and only then is the decision theirs. (Even in the case the decision made by the previous owner is irreversible, I'd still say it's irrelevant what a future owner may think... the right still belongs to the owner as long as he is the owner, period.)

As for bills, there's millions printed... even the rarer ones have several thousands... you want one in collectible condition, they're out there to be found. The ones Where's George stampers mark are only a very tiny fraction of the total.

You want to discourage people from marking bills you consider collectible, feel free to try, but ultimately the decision is theirs, not yours.

 

The law is the LAW, I know and I think wrucmike knows what it says, any who say different are twisting it around to suit their special interests and one of those special interests is promoting a for profit web site. I am aware of "FOG" and advertising on the site. You can paint your car whatever color you like but guess what the difference is between that and stamping a bill? The new owner could once again paint the car a different color, the effects of stamping a bill is irreversable.

 

Also, you don't own a federal reserve note - it's still owned by the federal reserve. If it was truly yours, you could write on it whatever you wanted.

 

By your logic, "the law" (i.e. the enforcers of the law) are twisting the law, because this has all been vetted through them. Personally, I'd trust the Secret Service's interpretations of their own laws more than your's.

Just out of curiosity, are either of you lawyers, or in some other way qualified to dictate what legal codes mean? I'm not being sarcastic, just asking - just wondering what your basis is for claiming authoritatively that the two of you "know" what it says.

As far as the "for profit" aspect, WG? makes very little, if any, profit. What revenue is brought in goes to support of the site (servers, hosting, etc.).

 

I never claimed to be an authority or to be speaking with absolute authority, but for every point that I made, I cited some external source (the Code, the Secret Service spokesperson, etc.). My position is/was very clear - stamping a bill with wg is like going 60 in a 55; chances are you won't be pulled over, but you could be. You can read all about it in my posts.

I rest my case...:hammer:

 

why don't you just outlaw anyone anywhere from spending or doing anything to any money. i suppose you think hobo's are illegal,and people who make rings and jewlery from money should be put in jail!l lets arrest a guy who folds a bill in his pocket.

 

I didn't mean to imply that you did, I just didn't want to go on assuming you weren't if that wasn't the case. And I don't want to barge in here and get beligerant and start some cross-forum war; ultimately I'd prefer the opposite result. Just trying to bring a little more knowledge and enlightenment to this conversation that most here probably aren't familiar with.

As I pointed out, these issues were all hashed out between the owner of the site and the authorities many years ago, so ultimately, in my eyes, that holds a little more weight than any of our speculation and personal interpretations of the code.

I rest my case.

 

Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with the issue. If Albert Einstein were a "georger" who did not know anything about numismatics, that wouldn't make him unintelligent for ignoring numismatic considerations. By the same token a person with an IQ of 80 who was aware of numismatics and didn't mark bills for that reason, wouldn't have suddenly become intelligent.

And just who is going to inventory the entire world's money supply to list which notes were, and which were not, marked up before the effective date of your new rule? Get real my friend.

 

Then this guy probably ought to be shot.

 

Okay. If you (or anyone else on this forum, for that matter) is willing to pay $2 over face for any and all notes older than 1988A, then nobody will mark these "rare and collectible" bills. Yes, I believe that some older notes should be saved, and Where's George? doesn't allow ANY bills older than series 1963 to be entered, to somewhat counteract this. But okay, let's say your rule is applied. That ordinary 1988 series $1 will pass, unstamped, from person to person until it is worn out and shredded by the FRB. Same goes for the 1995 and older $5s-$100s, except with greater urgency. Face it, paper money collectors are a small (albeit slightly larger) portion of the population. Many people will not really give a damn about a series 1963 short run star note, and spend it like any other bill. So what now, do we employ collectors to check the serial, series, and plate numbers of all bills that go to the FRB for shredding? You can't save all of them, just beglad you saved the ones you did.

 

Now hold on a second. Are you saying you hold onto these bills for a collection? So you are keeping bills that I may want to stamp and release into circulation? You don't think that these bills you are holding onto may be of value to someone else to track? Sounds to me like a very inconsiderate and selfish thing to do!

 

The currency defacement laws need to be clarified and enforced by the United States Federal Government. The United States Federal Government should adopt the currency defacement laws of the DPRK. Modeling such a law after that of Korea's would also help diplomatically, a win-win situation for all. If the people of the DPRK were allowed to communicate with the outside world, I am sure that they would say that virtually NONE of their currency ever has writing or stamps on it. See this note, no writing! The previous owners maintained respect toward this piece of currency, I just wish the same could be said for the currency of the United States.


What would our founding fathers say if they knew what we would be doing to their portraits, what with stamping over them and all? The thought saddens me greatly.

 

The US should adopt the laws of North Korea, a brutal communist dictatorship? No thanks. The bill probabaly never got near a normal North Korean - they are too busy scrounging tree bark for their next meal.

I actually save WG bills. They are collectable in their own right.

I also stamp lots of stuff on dollar bills (not WG, though) and I also counterstamp coins. Obviously I don't mess with legitimate collectables. The ironic thing is, the coins I counterstamp will be worth more one day as "defaced" coins than they would be worth if they continued to circulate and got more worn. People assume that a coin or note would remain in mint or near mint conditon and would be worth keeping if it hadn't been "defaced". In reality, it would have continued to circulate and gotten heavily worn.

As for the star note that started this thread, if it hadn't been taken to the bank by the WG stamper, he would have spent it somewhere else, and within a few months it would have been on the way to the shredder anyway.

 

maybe you should just go to Korea and then everyone's problem will be solved!

just because you don't stamp doesn't mean that what you want to do with a bill is any more important than a georger,they are made to circulate and be used to purchase items, bills are not made just for collecting.

 

LOL! OK, I get it now - this is all a joke. :mouth: I thought everything you were posting, you actually MEANT it! Ya know, adding a smilie or two would help us to know not to take your posts so literally.

Thanks for the laugh though.

 

Possession

Possession --- 9/10ths

Re: If it was truly yours, you could write on it whatever you wanted.

I can and do!