The truth on Q-Tips, cotton, and stern voices scratching coins

Is that what the guy cleans the rings with that looks like steam?

 

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Well, folks...true confessions here...it can be done: I occasionally use soft, untreated and non-fragrant tp...Charmin to be exact...to freshen up and help revive/enhance a coin's luster and/or mildly/gently uncover certain surfaces and details hidden by years of circulation and mild exposure. I would never do this for any reason on a proof, nor any coin with heavy build-up/dirt...only on certain circulated business strikes and some MS coins. The material used and the limited way I do it, so as not to appear polished or rubbed, does not leave scratches...at least not that can be detected or detected enough to matter to TPGs. I've become good at it...it took practice...and I have many straight-graded/slabbed coins by PCGS and NGC from submissions after this process (often taking no more than 10-15 seconds per coin/side). I've never had one returned as "details/cleaned" and I only do it for coins that I believe can be helped and without degrading/damaging the coin.

 

We have been through this before about hardness. If cotton didn't have a hardness value, you couldn't use cotton gloves or even keep your cotton or other fiber based clothing from lasting only a short time. but plant fibers are different from metals/minerals. Moh's hardness scale based many years ago, is what we normally use to describe hardness, but it was intended for mainly minerals with Gold and silver being about Moh 2.5, copper being about 3.0. You have to look a long time in references ( even with google) to find a comparison with plant or synthetic fibers. The one I found then extrapolated it to the range of 5 , and cotton has a specific hardness scale for the range of hardness of the fiber as different varieties of cotton have different feel in texture for manufacturing. So yes it can scratch soft metals. An iron/steel coin should not be a problem. IMO, Jim

 

I hope you also meant to say "unused"...

 

Couldn't resist could you?

 

Didn't @Insider once post a picture of a proof coin he had scrubbed with a Q-tip, showing that it was scratched?

 

Excellent memory. It was even worse than you describe, however. I took a cotton cloth and rubbed the fields of a Kennedy proof. Afterwards, I examined it and could find no hairlines.

In my many, many yeas of gently conserving coins with Q-tips, I've never seen scratches left on a coin from gently using a clean Q-tip. I always use water or acetone to wet the Qtip before applying.

I challenge anyone who claims a (properly used) Qtip will damage a coin to take clear before pictures. Apply the Qtip. Carefully document the process you used. And then take clear after pictures showing the damage. I'll believe it when I see it. Of course if you're using a dirty Qtip with particles embedded in it, you're going to scratch the coin. But the Qtip itself... highly unlikely.

 

As a scientist, educated/practicing in the crafts/professions for more than 70 years since 9 YOA, constantly working in challenging positions through-out the world to solve unique problems, I intuitively would agree with your thoughts. But, from experience, I know better. I've received numerous awards/patents, to only understand the process, but not to create an absolute uncontaminated atmosphere. Unless one knows all of the environmental parameters of a process, virtually nothing can be guaranteed.

Microscopic contamination exists virtually everywhere, as I know from high-vacuum processing in virtually sterile facilities.

Early in my vast Numismatic education I "hair-lined" destroyed several flawless specimens of "fine material" P.M. using lubricated "Q-tips".

I live in a 1st-growth forest sealed home, ~70' above a "white water" river, ~15' below, and 1/4 mile from a well traveled rural "dirt" road. I watch the effluent clouds from vehicle travel, rise/travel downwards through my thick woods, causing layers in my home. Do you have an idea how hard some of those microscopic particles may be?.

I suspect road dust may cause scratches, although unseen with the human eye.

JMHO

 

Thanks. What's a 1st-growth forest sealed home? Are you talking about the forest around your home, or some kind of lumber construction? First growth means new? Like after a forest fire?

How do you approach filtering for your home? I was just reading about the various "clean room" standards and levels. Doesn't all that dust from the road get filtered out at your intake vents?

 

Are you meaning to say that cotton is harder than gold and silver? I don't understand how that can possibly be true.

Mohs is typically used for "scratch hardness", but there are lots of other more popular scales for hardness generally. I'm not sure what you meant with the "extrapolated" 5 value for cotton. It can't be 5 if it's on the same scale as the metals.

We need a clear and accurate model of what's happening when coins get scratched from contact with cotton swabs, cloths, etc. If it's always a case of contamination, where it's sand or other hard particles that are actually scratching the coin, that's one thing. But if we're thinking that the cotton itself is scratching the coin, well we really need to figure out how that works. This all should have been locked down scientifically decades ago, but I guess it's a small market.

 

They come into contact with things harder than the coin, like constant abrasion from particles in people's hands, pockets, and cash registers. And of course lots of other coins.

 

What are the rules or principles for when object A will scratch object B? It can't be random, and it's not going to always happen, so it must be predictable in advance. I assume the sharpness is a factor, the amount of force/pressure, etc?

A lot of times "scratches" are actually deposits made by the applied object, because it was too soft relative to the object it was trying to scratch, so it got abraded instead. Kind of like how when Chuck Norris does push-ups, he doesn't push himself up – he pushes the earth away...

 

Ok, then explain how water and wind can erode rock. Neither are harder than rock.

 

My home is sealed, existing in a 1st growth small forest, that hasn't been cut, or completely destroyed by humans and the elements.

I have vestibules, Hepa and ionization filters, but regardless the elements will get in when you have differential pressure.

Having a completely enclosed property with limited access, cameras, patrol dogs, I've eliminated the problems caused by humans in a "democracy".

JMHO

 

They carry dust and grit.

 

Moh made his scale in 1822 and basically used only common minerals as the scale was for use by mineralogists. Obviously cotton is not a mineral so it is not on the Moh scale, however, it has hardness since it isn't a liquid, thus the "extrapolation" . As I mentioned this subject came up a while back and I did not keep the urls. Moh's scale is always mentioned as evidence that a diamond is the hardest mineral, but mineralogy has identified and even created new compounds harder than diamonds. All were not known or suspected in 1822, but modern technology has allowed us to find, analyze, and even create these new mineral materials. ( the article below is one that pops up, but you can search many others.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidb...rystal-stronger-than-diamond/?sh=122eca533d89

Jim

 

I was replying to the OP.

 

I am very worried about you. That is a bit to tenacious, re. the q -tip thing

Just kidding. Don't hit me......

 

Actually, they are. Throw a bunch of rocks at the wind. See how much damage you do. Toss a bunch of rocks in the river. See how the river remains non-scratched.