Featured The Truth about New Orleans mint Morgan Dollars

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by CamaroDMD, Jun 13, 2009.

  1. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    Like GD said, everyone has a little take on things and some of these dates are a little better than others. I think I may have been unclear about my Intermediate category. I don't mean that those coins have a middle of the road strike. What I mean is those dates have a very wide range of striking quality. Some are found fully struck and others are found weakly struck...both fairly commonly for the same year. These years had an especially bad quality control standard. This is unlike the weakly struck years were they had consistency poorly struck coins.

    I hope that makes sense.
     
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  3. blu62vette

    blu62vette Member

    Makes sense. I was thinking 1888-O, I see those pretty dang nice but your comment above makes sense as I am sure there are some mediocre ones as well, if not more of bad than good.

    What kills me is when people say 1883-85-o's are weakly struck. I dont consider them weakly struck some are good, some are not and few are like the 92-o's. I think having them in the middle is a good place. Again, nice job. I hope more people can see that O mints are not as badly struck as their reputation.
     
  4. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    I completely agree. My point for putting this together was 2 fold. 1) so people don't get suckered into the "bad strike stigma" and pay unwarranted premiums on coins that don't deserve it and 2) people understand that for many of these dates...good strikes not only exist but are reasonably common and can be easily obtained with a little patience. I hope if collectors begin to understand this many won't but into the "O" mint Morgan's are "always poorly struck" because it isn't true.
     
    Eaglefawn likes this.
  5. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    This thread deserves a bump ttt.
     
  6. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Indeed it does!

    I wasn't here when this thread first started, and somehow I missed it on the second go-round in 2011. I noted Roger's comment about the failure to soften the planchets as a reason for some of the die failures.

    It is also my understanding that there were several years in which the New Orleans Mint received a small number of dies, and in an effort to preserve their productive life, the striking pressure was reduced. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Chris
     
  7. raider34

    raider34 Active Member

    I believe low strike pressure was one of the contributing factors (depending on the year). I don't have any books on me right now, but I believe a shortage of dies may have been a reason for lowered strike pressure. On average the NO mint stuck 150,000 coins per die, second only to Philly. Improper annealing is another often cited factor. I believe it was the NO mint that had lots of trouble getting the (wood?, don't think they had gas) furnaces to the right temperature, this often resulted in the planchets being too cold and therefore too hard for striking. Another factor was improper basining of the dies which left them not as convex as they should have been.

    Wayne Miller mentioned it in his book:
    Wayne Miller The Morgan and Peace Dollar Textbook p. 33-34


     
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  8. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    It seems as though Roger's cameo appearance in this thread went rather unnoticed. My inclination is to think that many members here simply don't know who he is which would explain the lack of discussion regarding his comment. Perhaps they would be interested to know that Doug is eagerly awaiting the release of his newest book, FROM MINE TO MINT.
     
    Eaglefawn likes this.
  9. Coinman1974

    Coinman1974 Research, Research, Research

    Just stumbled upon this thread. Awesome research and write up on Morgans.
     
  10. blu62vette

    blu62vette Member

    I should add a bunch of pics to this thread. Since my last post on this thread I have added a bunch of O mint DMPL/PL's, none of the common dates.

    Here is a nice example for this date:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Morgandude11 likes this.
  11. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    I've had a notably harder time over the years locating acceptable 89-O coins than 92-O. The two 92-O coins I have are great strikes, although they have prooflike attributes, and are not typical cartwheels. Perhaps I've just been in the right place at the right time for the 92-O?
     
  12. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Bamned

    The only Morgans that matter to me, were alleged to have been struck in New Orleans but heaven only knows where they were really struck - the Micro-O counterfeits. Will post some sometime.
     
  13. josh's coins

    josh's coins Well-Known Member

    I have a 1904-O ms64 morgan the strike is superb!
     
  14. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    I'm not surprised. 1904-O is one of those dates that had a very wide range of strike quality. Some were awesome and some were terrible.
     
  15. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    The last one I sold was not so good.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    Here's my 04 o--I'd go with average strike at best. Doc is right--an extremely variable date--all of the 1900 New Orleans mint coins are very variable. I have seen gorgeous 1900 o coins with fabulous strikes:

    1904o-1-1.jpg 1904orev-1-1.jpg
     
    Eaglefawn likes this.
  17. JPeace$

    JPeace$ Coinaholic

    84-O. I'll see if I can't get better pictures, but good strike.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    Woah, this thread is a blast from the past.
     
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  19. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    This is a great article. Most people who do not know Morgan Dollars well, assume that all New Orleans dates are poorly struck, verging on the "AU" look, for mint state coins. This is about as true as all San Francisco mint coins being wonderfully struck--I have even seen examples of 1882s coins being average or below average strikes (this is one of the best dates for strike that exists in the Morgan world). Strike at all mints is very variable, especially in the 1880s, and before--dies were far less sophisticated, and presses were nowhere near as reliable and consistent as they are in the modern era. Thus, strike variations are significant in ALL mints and for virtually ALL Morgan dates--two identical date and mint examples in the same condition (by both TPG and Doug's standards) can vary wildly in strike quality. Was the New Orleans mint notorious for producing weak strikes overall? Yes, there are a lot of substandard strikes from this mint, and it is a disproportionate amount, compared to Philadelphia, or Carson City, or at times, San Francisco. However, the article is quite accurate that there are nicely struck examples of New Orleans mint coins for certain dates--I could put the obverse for the date on the table and you would consider the sample coin a good strike, and if you turned said coin over, it would have an "o" mintmark.
     
  20. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    Thanks for the kind words. When I started gathering the information I presented here...I did it because I had seen quite a range of strike quality amongst New Orleans minted coins. But, I also saw most people (both collectors and dealers) assuming well struck "O" Morgan's from all dates deserved a very large premium. After some research, I discovered that is not true. For several dates, well struck examples are pretty easy to come by.
     
  21. Ed Sims

    Ed Sims Well-Known Member

    It should not matter which mint the Morgan dollar was struck at when selecting one your collection you should always strive to find the best quality strike possible. Some years at some mints are not as easy as others.

    New Orleans was not the only mint to have poor quality years. It is the only one to be the victim of a widespread bad reputation regarding strike quality amongst non Morgan dollar specialists.
     
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