Featured The trouble with t̶r̶i̶b̶b̶l̶e̶s̶ trachys

Whoa! Mind .... BLOWN!

 

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Great thread! And some great trachies (trachea?). Here are three of my favourites:

John II Comnenus (1118-1143), probably my best strike, also decent silvering.


Isaac I Comnenus, usurper on Cyprus (1185-1191). Probably my rarest.


Andronicus II (1282-1328), Thessalonica mint. Terrible obverse but a nice reverse (probably my best Palaeologan):


Since the cupping practice started with the gold coins, I like the theory that it was to combat forgery.

 

Seems that John II Comnenus' coins all look the same. Majority of the ones I have seen have little to no legends and hence it is isolated to just Christ and John II:



That is a very nice Isaac I Comnenus trachy. Far better than my tattered one:



Here is one of my better Andronicus that you don't normally encounter:

Byzantine Empire: Andronicus II Palaeologus (1282-1328) Trachy, Constantinople (Sear-2334)

Obv: Bust of the Virgin, arms spread, within the walls of Constantinople with 6 groups of triple towers, sigla in lower fields A - X
Rev: Christ standing on the right, facing three-quarters lefty, holding Book of Gospels, placing right hand on the head of Andronikos prostrate in proskynesis, Greek legend in fields IC - XC (right) and ANDRONIKOS EN HO DESPOTIS O PALLO (left)

 

Great write up @Quant.Geek and nice coin-bowls...

My only Trachy. I really do not collect these "Moderns":


BZ Manuel I Comnenus 1143-1180 CE Aspron Trachy 35mm 4-6g Christ Gospels Labaran globus cruciger Virgin maphorium SB 1966

 

Uhm, I hate to break it to you guys, but your coins are bent in the middle.

Kind of reminds me of this one:

 

Yep. About 800 years too late . Old technology recycled as new

 

Here is my Manuel I Trachy: I liked that the strike was just good enough that you can sort of see the medallion of Christ in the center of the reverse. For the obverse, even though the name and part of the lower area is flattened (weakly struck?), I am very happy with the “dots and all” portrait. It’s interesting to see the amount of detail they make out of the dots and lines. The reverse was hard to photograph for me. With regard to future trachies, I plan to get an Isaac II Trachy and a specific Latin issue (and in my dreams John III and Michael VIII hyperpyrons) one day.

 

Nothing news here.

Manuel I, sear 1966:

If you look at the reverse side, and at the left hand of Manuel where he holds the globe you would actually realize that there are two crosses(because of concave struck I assume?)


A Hyperpyron, John II (1118-1143), 4,28gram and 32 mm, Sear 1938.


Obverse with Jesus and his siametic twin(Because of concave struck, that gotta be it)

 

And another one:

Kingdom of Thessalonica: Theodoros Comnenus-Ducas (1224-1230) Æ Trachy, Thessalonica (Sear-2168, Sommer-73.6)

Obv: IC XC in field; Bust of Christ Emmanuel, beardless and nimbate; left hand holds scroll; Pellet, or pellets, in each limb of nimbus cross
Rev: ΘЄOΔШPOC ΔЄCΠΟΤΗC KOMNHNOC O ΔϪKAC in two columnar groups; Full-length figure of emperor, wearing stemma, divitision, collar-piece and panelled loros of simplified type; right hand holds labarum-headed scepter; left hand holds globus surmounted by single or double barred cross; Manus Dei in upper right field

 

Thank you for the information!! You just made these coins super interesting to me, I had no idea how they were minted!!

 

Thanks, never gave this any thought. I don't "buy" the rocked strike theory. But that is just a truly uninformed opinion. Something the researchers should be looking for are as stated, double strikes AND shelf doubling where the design is pushed over. Both these characteristics are often present on these coins. A simple but costly (?) experiment could be done to match the characteristics.

Another thought, Byzantine coins are counterfeited. I confess to never seeing a cupped shaped fake but they must be around. If true, we can find out how the genuine coins were probably made by learning from the modern folks striking them.

Caesar_Augustus, posted: "I never would have thought that they used concave and convex dies to strike them. I always thought it was just regular dies on concave blanks."

Think that out. What would happen to a curved planchet struck between two flat dies?

 

Theories are just that, theories. An educated guess to how things are done. It might be right or it might be wrong. The problem here is that several of these "technologies" were never written down as it was deemed as trade secrets. It definitely needs to be re-investigated as it is a interesting area on metallurgy, currency, and a bit of physics...

 

My post didn't come out correctly. MY OPINION IS THE ONE THAT IS TRULY UNINFORMED! Nevertheless, I don't like the "rocked die" theory.

 

Oh wow, that's cool...never seen one quite like that!

Here's the obverse of an Alexius III where they did some "rockin" and made a cyclops Jesus...


And one where they struck him dead on..



Note how strong the fields are in the cyclops coin compared to the two eyed Christ.

Sorry for my pics....dang.

 

Very nice! Trachys are sometimes really ugly when it gets rocked and socked. But that effect is cool. Kind of makes you wonder with all the religious zealous of the Byzantines, why would they allow coins to be struck like this. It is definitely a difficult series to collect as choice coins are either hoarded, expensive, or quickly snapped up. Here is a trachy from Norman Sicily:

Normans in Sicily: William I (1154-1166) AR Ducale, Palermo (Spahr-94; MEC-290; MIR-435)

Obv: IC XC; Bust of Christ Pantokrator facing
Rev: R DVX FI LI VS EIVS; King William, on right, and his son, Duke Roger, on left, both standing facing and holding a long patriarchal cross between them; the King also holds globus cruciger, while his son holds his sword by the hilt

This issue commemorates the investiture of William as King of Sicily and Roger as Duke of Puglia by Pope Adrian IV (Nicholas Breakspear, the only Englishman to have occupied the papal throne)

 

This is a Great Coin. I have Roger II and III, but only small billon pieces. This is a beauty. Thanks!

 

I am still looking for Roger II's Ducale, which is even nicer, but I was the underbidder in several auctions



Here is the Hungarian equivalent:

Hungary: Belá III (1172-1196) Follis (Huszár-72, Unger-114)

Obv: SANCTA—MARIA, Nimbate Madonna facing the front, scepter in right hand, infant Jesus in left. Two crosses above.
Rev: REX BELA on left, REX STS on right; Two kings seated on thrones facing, each holding scepter and globus cruciger; long cross between. Inverted crescent and three lines in exergue

 

I think this theory makes the most sense. Thanks for writing up this post, by the way. It is so interesting!

 

As a note to all collectors of these beauties, the dear man Simon Bendall has had his entire collection of Byzantine STOLEN. See Coinsweekly for the article. http://www.coinsweekly.com/en/page/4?&id=5201. These coins are not ones that are easy to hid so if someone shows up trying to sell you a group of coins like this you are all aware. Thanks!

 

Very big bummer about Simon's collection. He is a kind, gentle chap and must be crushed. Met him in NYC years ago.