The Toning Premium Thread

I really think it would be easier if we just focused on the purchase price. I for one was very confused about the last coin. I think you are struggling with the fact that on any given day the price/value of a toned coin can vary greatly depending upon the potential bidders and the sale venue. It is important to recognize that people usually describe the value of a toned coin as a price range listed in multiples of wholesale (greysheet, Numismedia, etc.). The toning on this new 1885-O is much more vibrant an impressive than the 1886 posted previously. I would price this coin at 7-10X wholesale. Personally, because of the condition of the cheek, I would only bid 7X wholesale but can understand why someone else would pay 10X wholesale based on the incredible toning.

My guess is that you paid the same for this coin as you did the last coin: $300.

I would like to add that evaluating coins using this method of multiples of wholesale is rather dangerous right now. The price of silver has artificially inflated the prices of common date Morgan Dollars and therefore any multiples of those wholesale prices will be just as inflated. The 1886 that you paid $300 which is a multiple of 3X wholesale ($105) currently had a wholesale value of only $50 for the better part of the last decade. In essence you paid 6X wholesale for that coin. I like it at 3X, not so much at 6X. I really think that is a factor you should be aware of if you are going to start seriously buying toners.

 

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$325

 

I'll say 290 on this one. 85-o's are incredibly common with attractive toning, much more so than the 86 from what I have seen. There are some morgan dates out there are are very very hard to find with any nice toning at all. The date is also a factor to consider.

As to the question regarding the black or charcoal areas in a toner. Yes, that is the last stage of toning, it will only turn a darker shade of black and underneath that black will essentially be a rusted out surface, heavily eroded and unattractive. Most "monster" toners that I've seen selling for 20-50x premiums present areas that are on the edge of this errosion also, which bewilders me when I see those premiums.

 

$350 on the morgan. The roosie didn't sell last night, apparantly TT didn't feel the bidding went high enough. When I last looked it was at $90 so it was bis higher than we all felt, I'll watch it to see if its relisted.

 

i am closing out this last contest on the 1885-O Morgan because Seasnake hit the nail on the head ... $350
congrats seasnake!!

nobody is going to get any closer than that

if you have or find another coin to post ... pop it up here.

i am shocked the bidding on the rosie got up to $90 ... and doubly shocked that TT didnt feel that was enough.

 

That's very interesting information, bahabully. Is there a reference somewhere (book or website) on which dates/mints are rare for toners? Or if anyone knows this info generally, feel free to post. I would be interested in learning.

Just based on the few auctions I've seen I would guess that 1879-S, 80-S, and 81-S ... along with 83-O, 84-O, and 85-O are more common ??

What are the rarest dates/mints for toning?
​

 

Another road trip, left cold ny this morning for sunny florida. Just have my acer mini with no pics stored in it so I reluctantly have to pass on posting the next coin.

 

Thanks for checking in seasnake. NY to Fla sounds like a fun trip (but Rt 95 can be so boring). I made that trip many times.

I have 3 low end toners that I bought in the past couple of weeks. These are not wildly colored or impressive, but I really liked them. It's interesting but these cover the first three years of the Morgan series -- which gave me the idea to see if I could put together a Morgan "Date Set" of toners, with every year covered. I think that would be a cool endeavor. No idea if that is possible or not, as someone already mentioned that toners from some years are really rare. (And anyway I doubt I can afford anything from the year 1895!)

If anyone wants to guess at the purchase price of these 3 that would be fun. Or if you just want to gawk, that's fine too. Just a note that all three of these were bought in a regular auction.

As a baseline for guessing, the NGC Numismedia price guide lists the recent average sales price on the 1878 at $175; and the 1879-S & 1880-S are listed at $102 (for regular untoned coins in those NGC grades: MS63, MS64, & MS64).

 

150 each ?

 

Nice-looking coins, Winged, but I have to say again: look at the holder prongs of the '78. They're as blue as the toning of the coin! As with the previous one, if you correct for that blue, you're going to lose most of the blue tone of your coin. That leaves me a little suspicious of the others, depending of course on who the seller was.

Grey sheet bid for the '78 is $145 and $89 for the other two, which I believe should be considered when you're estimating FMV, since many Morgan dealers (at least in my experience) sell at bid or just above. Plus, as Lafayette pointed out, those values are inflated due to silver.

So, not being sure of the actual color of the coins, I'll go $175 for the '78 and $135 each for the others.

 

Thanks Oval! Actually the 1878 I have in hand ... and I LOVE it ... it's by far my favorite Morgan in my collection.

The 1879 and 1880 will be here tomorrow I think, so I will let you know on those.

You are right though, the 1878 is less blue around the edge in hand (but only slightly). The color in the seller's photo was so close to the coin in hand that I never re-photographed it. It's a STUNNING coin (to my eye at least!) and shows color in any light and at any angle. I think this is rare among toned coins as most seem to require a special viewing angle or lighting condition to show their color.

Even right now, in my somewhat dark office under soft 30W lamp light, I have the coin propped up next to my computer monitor, and the blue color around the edge is very striking and visible -- and the entire coin has a soft golden color. The reverse is so golden that it almost looks like a gold coin. This coin is eye-candy to me. I will never sell this one!

 

Good to hear about the '78!

 

Hey oval, I took the seller's photo's of the NGC slab of the 1878 and then tried to color correct the slabs to white.

So these corrected photos are pretty close to what the coin looks like in hand -- except to my eye, the toning around the rim looks a bit more blue than the photo suggests (the photo tone is a bit more green). Doesn't this look a tiny bit like a toned gold coin?

Tell you what. Photographing and imaging coins is a real art!

 

190
125
130

 

I don't agree with baha on this one. The 1886 is very commonly found with rainbow toning and many of the Battlecreeks are 1886. Other common date bag toners are 82-S, 85, 87, and 89.

 

I never said the 86 was rare with toning,, there are puddles of them everywhere. I just see bigger pubbles of 85-o's than the 86. 81-s is another like the 85-o that I often see for sale with toning. I'd love to see a nice 95-s toner,,, but I think the doctors don't like to work thier magic with them as there is too much downside if they come out fugly.

 

Simpson-Sunnywood Collection PCGS Registry

 

Wow Lafayette, that is an amazing set of Morgan Toners. Thanks for posting that link.

 

I was surprised to see an 1882-S as a common bag toner. I guess I dont put it in the same group as the others dates mentioned.

 

The Answer is

1878 = $147 or 0.8x (12 bids) ... the seller later told me I bought this for about $40 less than he paid
1879 = $130 or 1.3x (15 bids)
1880 = $130 or 1.3x (17 bids)

BahaBully wins on the 1878
Duke wins on the 1879 and 1880 (but I think Duke's call on the 1878 was closer to a true market value)

The guesses were really close. Great job!