The Toning Premium Thread

$950. Nice morgan!

 

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I'll say $800,,, this is a common date, and relatively common in 67,, and is a date that is also common to see with nice tone... so I'll guess the toning and the * didn't drive too much of a premium.

 

$1,275 for me as yes it is a common date but a 7 in star is nice as they grade those tougher to start. I am thinking the color is a bit brighter in hand and there is plenty of changes in it. Other then the bit of darkness it's totally thumbs up! :thumb:

 

I am going with $800 as well.....looks like its worth a small premium and I have seen better coins sell for around $850 to $900 now days in an NGC holder. Still i think it's an attractive coin and worth at least a 25% premium...

 

Thanks for all the answers. Lehigh and Seasnake, you're both winners with a very close $1,000; I paid a bit over $980 altogether. Seasnake, apologies if you had guessed without looking at other posts; I assumed people were. Is there a rule that the first person to guess breaks a tie?

Lehigh, your analysis was impressively spot on; the only thing I would say is that the colors aren't more intense in hand, as they are somber colors, but maybe a bit "cleaner" (the photos are lifted from Heritage). Very pleasant in hand, I think.

I was bowled over by the eagle of this coin.

PS: wholesale was $700 when I bought it, so I paid a 40% premium.

 

Great Coin, and an excellent buy ! IMHO

 

Here's another reference piece to this one....

dunno if the toning pattern and color drives a lower premium,, would be interesting to hear from the pro's regarding that...

IMHO you overpaid for your coin,, this one was captured for $747 at heritage orlando fun.

 

I like your coin baha but I'm not sure of the relevance of the comparison. There are many toners out there; each is different. I bought one unique coin, toned both obverse and reverse, and therefore was willing to pay the premium.

I think the broad range of price estimates throughout this thread is doing a great job of demonstrating how subjective collecting toners is.

 

I think it's absolutely relevant to the intent of this thread.... it enables a view of apples to apples date and grade and tpg, where the most significant variable should be "tone"... so it provides an opportunity for toner specialists to jump in and explain why they believe one coin drove such a higher premium than the other..

could it be the toned reverse ?
could it be the colors or toning pattern ?
could it be someone overpaid and someone underpaid ?
could it be that there isn't any significant difference and no one really knows ?

Something I find very interesting is the delta between what Shane guessed and what Lehigh guessed,, both of whom I would consider very in on toner market activity. A 20% difference between Lehigh's guess and Shanes, with Shane approximating my paid amount nicely and Lehigh approximating your paid amount nicely..... That's 20% ! on the same coin ! with only primary difference the toning !
Now if neither of them can't pony up reasons for the difference, then what's the purpose of this thread again ?,,, other than to illustrate that toning costs directly correlate to black magic, lava rocks, and scrambled eggs.

 

The problem with this whole exercise is that in an auction it only takes two overzealous bidders to run a coin up, and I wonder if that's what happened between the two coins in question.

 

I think we're both saying more or less the same thing. The coin you posted is not like mine, apples to apples. Yet the difference between Lehigh's and Shane's estimates might also suggest subjectivity (they'd have to weigh in on that).

As far as "guessing" and the purpose of this thread, I think what eventually and inevitably happens is that, upon many, many educated guesses, a bell curve would form that would serve as some sort of baseline, which is what Heritage's and ebay's closed auctions do. However, given this, there is still going to be subjectivity.

 

Exactly,, if I had to guess why there was a difference, that would be it..... but then again, I have no feel for the attributes of toners that drive the $'s....

 

I was just facing that same scenario in a Stacks sale. The bottom line was, I backed off that item, he paid twice what is was worth, and right behind that lot was the exact same coin, in the same holder, same grade which I won for less that half of what he paid for his lot. I forgot to mention, the lot I won, was as very bit as good for the grade as the one he paid 2.5 X for. Sometimes you just come up against an over zealous bidder.

 

Definitely some to be said about that... Just this last month I went after a 66sms cent in ngc holder in ms68.. sell had three listed... I chased the first to $70, it sold for almost 90 if I remember correctly,,, I layed off after that and decided to focus on the last one listed.... second went off around 65-70,, and I got the last one around $50'ish......

moral of the story,,, don't chase coins in auction, patience pays very very nicely... in my case, ~50% discount to the one I chased.

* Toners tend to be the worst as they impart an emotional response in the bidder more than other blander coins...... beware of this ye bidders out there !

 

Here is what I know.....my buying and selling of so many toned coins this year has given me a strong market perspective on what these coins typically sell for...

Based on a lot of these coins being purchased in years past....my in depth knowledge of the market as it stands today is of little use to me in this thread. Also...even though I believe I know what a coin is worth....I routinely see coins go for more and less then I would have guessed when viewing items I want to buy on ebay. I think the bottom line is there is just to much volitility in the market for anyone to really get consistantly close on these guesses in this thread but the thread serves a valuable purpose if for no other reason than to point that out very clearly. You won't see me post that a buer over paid or under paid even if I am conviced I know the answer simply because coins can sell for greatly different prices from one day to the next and what I like and value a coin at is completely different then what Lehigh values a coin at...neither of us is wrong but our eyes like different stuff.

I sold a coin 2 weeks ago on Ebay for around $365, the buyer sent it back becuase it looked to much like a similar piece he owned, stRange but ok. I relisted it with the same description and picture and this week and it sold for $410 so about a 12% lift...yet it was the same coin listing and images.

Don't try to figure out why I guessed one way or lehigh guessed another...but rather figure out if you are consistantly guessing a higher price then was paid or consistantly guessing lower. That might hlep you better determine how accurate your market perspective is when it comes to toned coin selling prices. If your like most of us who will guess both high and low then you probably have at least a usable grasp on the market which will only be useful if you decide to jump in and actively buy toned coins.

 

Another consideration regarding the issue of variances in prices (the two bidder theory or the several of the same date but be patient theory) is that for some auctions, the winning bidder and underbidders have seen the coin in hand and feel it is remarkable compared to its peers. Not always the case, but it can explain the difference.

 

Good summary, especially this point. We each have to feel confident and comfortable about our bidding/buying, regardless of what others think. This also, or especially, applies to "bidding frenzies" and even to a thread like this, where positive or negative comments about a coin can alter someone's original perception of it.

 

Completly missed the first 1K bet,if I saw it I would have guessed higher and lost anyway. Hit 2 longshots at the sports book at dover downs and found a bar there that sells 16oz pabst buie ribbons for 2 bucks, ouch, no wonder I missed the first bet. On the road again heading south to the keys but following this thread when I get a chance.

 

I agree that coins have a value range. But if anyone thinks this exercise is futile, they are kidding themselves. For each coin posted, write down all of the prices guessed and the result will be a value range. It may be helpful to identify those guessers who are consistently over or under and remove their guesses.

Just because I guessed $1K for the previous coin and happened to be right doesn't mean I am more in tune with the market than Shane, it just means I got lucky. Having said that, this is the first time I was the closest guesser, and like Shane, I consider myself skilled at pricing toned coins. I never intended this to be a contest to see who was better; it was supposed to be educational and I think it has been despite the occasional tangents.

If one were so inclined, I think that tallying the price difference between the member guess and the sale price for each coin and adding them would eventually yield the best person at pricing toned coins as long as the sample size was large enough. I have not intention of doing that but if anyone else wants to, feel free.

I am on vacation in Tampa and pass right to post the next coin. I think seasnake passes as well which means the floor is open.