The Toning Premium Thread Part 2

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by ddddd, Jul 10, 2017.

  1. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    I was recently looking at a thread from @Lehigh96 about toning premiums from the 2010-2011 time period.

    As toning continues to be both popular and controversial, I thought it would be interesting to see what posters have to say about the market for the past few years.

    The rules are simple:
    1. A toned coin with an approximate "guide price" will be posted.
    2. Everyone has 24 hours to guess the premium/price paid (as well as their. thoughts of what the coin is worth).
    3. Provide a reason for your guess (if it is just a wild guess, please say so).
    4. The closest guess to the price that the coin sold for wins and gets to post the next coin.
    *Note: please don't post another coin until the prior item has a declared winner.
    5. If the winner does not want to post a coin or can't do so within 24 hours of being declared the winner, anyone is open to post their coin.

    *Note#2: If the thread seems to lose interest, there may be room to alter the rules above.
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  3. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Let's start with a bit of a challenge:

    1921 MS 65 ...Greysheet sight-seen value is $120. What do you think this sold for and/or what is it worth? Remember that the winner will be determined based on who is closest to the final sale price (you can go over or under...this is not Price is Right style).

  4. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    I would say w/ premium this is a guess 285.00
    I wouldn't pay more than about 200 for it.
    sel w and ddddd like this.
  5. Cascade

    Cascade The Blind VAMmer

    Oh god that's gorgeous. I have seen similar ones sell in the $2000+ range. Tough to say what it went for though as many factors are at play with a coin on this level. Venue, how many eyes on the auction that know the full breadth of what they're looking at etc. That coin should have been the 21p for the Sunnywood set!
    Kentucky and ddddd like this.
  6. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    1921's just don't come toned like that. I bet it sells for $1100. To me, the Morgan toned market has cooled over the last year. I've seen gorgeous and unique toned Morgans sell with much smaller premiums than in the past. Just my viewpoint, anyway.
    ddddd likes this.
  7. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Yes venue can matter. I considered including the venue, but decided against it since it would make it much easier for someone to just go and look it up.
  8. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    We won't think less of you if you make a ridiculous guess...:) I'll guess $250
    ddddd likes this.
  9. Cascade

    Cascade The Blind VAMmer

    Mark my words. That is a 4-figure coin
  10. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Ok, call me a rookie. I new there was a premium but that's way out of my league.
  11. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    You're right, I think. It's a 21!
  12. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    All guesses are welcome and we won't be making fun of anyone. Part of the exercise is to see how various people think about toning. There will of course be a full spectrum-from those that say no premium all the way up to those that say a high premium.
  13. Volante

    Volante Well-Known Member

    Just found this coin and have to say I'm pretty surprised at the price realized. If the violet/golden toning on the reverse was also on the obverse, then I would actually like it more than as is. Never been a fan of the oil-slick coloration.
    Cheech9712 and Two Dogs like this.
  14. heavycam.monstervam

    heavycam.monstervam Outlaw Trucker & Coin Hillbilly

    How can i put a value on the nicest '21 ive ever seen???
    Ill say $1500, but, knowing where it was offered for sale would make it easier to guess the hammer price

    (I think its worth alot more than that and would love to own that coin)
  15. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    I was a bit surprised as well (I didn't win it). However, considering how difficult 1921 Morgans with appealing toning are to find, it isn't out of the ordinary to see the final price.
  16. Volante

    Volante Well-Known Member

    I suppose so - the site it sold on also seems to be one of the strongest markets out there for toned Morgans. I actually have a nicely toned 1921-P on the way back from NGC right now, will have to share photos once it arrives.
  17. Johndoe2000$

    Johndoe2000$ Well-Known Member

    $194... that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. :bored:
    Cheech9712 likes this.
  18. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    I know that coin and where it was so won't give it away, but the toning itself has the big money look. That said I think it was a little high just because of the pattern, but at the same time I would have expected it to sell for more if the whole obverse was toned
    Cheech9712 likes this.
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The market for toned coins has weakened considerably over the years, or, another way of saying that would be that the premiums being payed for attractively toned coins have dropped considerably from what they used to be.

    The key phrase in that is "attractively toned", but of course that's a subjective thing as beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. What you think is pretty, I may not think is pretty at all and that's to be expected. But as a general rule anyway, over the years if I think a coin is pretty it seems most will as well.

    This particular coin however, I do not find attractive. To me it almost borders on being ugly. The toning pattern, and when I say pattern I mean the shape, is, well weird - I don't like it. And the color, on the obv, in many places is too dark, and somewhat mottled. Given that, I don't suspect there would be a whole lot of premium paid for toning like that - if it were any other date. But being a '21, who knows, someone may have gone slightly crazy for that reason alone. God only knows that I have seen far more than one pay what I would call stupid money for toned coins !

    And to be completely honest, I wouldn't be surprised at all if somebody made that coin. And yes, that means I wouldn't be surprised if it was AT.
  20. IBetASilverDollar

    IBetASilverDollar Well-Known Member

    I need a nice looking 21 for my date set I would have definitely been a player on that probably up to $400 or so and I'm sure, especially reading comments here, I wouldn't have been close. I'll guess $1,600 was final sale price.

    Speaking of nice looking 21's, had a 21-D on my radar a few weeks or months back in a heritage auction and completely spaced out and missed when it came up and it went for less than I would have paid of course. So hard to find nice 21's
  21. IBetASilverDollar

    IBetASilverDollar Well-Known Member

    Went to the original thread after reading your first paragraph here. Lehigh posted a nice 82-S MS66 and people were guessing well over a thousand (and looks like what standard 82-S MS66's were going for was similar then to today). He paid a little over $700 for it, today I think it would be in a 66* holder and sell for around $400 (I just bought an 80-S 66* not quite as nice but still beautiful for $300). Seems like premiums I view as crazy today were standard as recent as that thread. Interesting to know, I would have had only white coins back then with my unwillingness to pay large color premiums.

    As for your second part, that's exactly the case for me. 21's are just hideous normally, I would jump at one as nice as OPs, but again probably not even close to what it sold for so I'd have to get lucky to ever own one like that.
    RICHARD K likes this.
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