Featured The Story of the Coin Struck to Fight Hannibal: The First Denarius and its Influence

Collect89 · Jul 27, 2017

Thank you muchly for the thread. It was a pleasure to read & full of good stuff. I hope the mods will feature your thread.

Edit to add: It is featured at CT now. Congratulations.

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TIF · Jul 27, 2017

Collect89 said: ↑

Thank you muchly for the thread. It was a pleasure to read & full of good stuff. I hope the mods will feature your thread.
Click to expand...

I think they did while you were reading it

Great stuff, Curtisimo! Although... now the competition for these will increase. Thanks a lot bro-- you just cost us all more money

Curtisimo · Jul 27, 2017

Collect89 said: ↑

Thank you muchly for the thread. It was a pleasure to read & full of good stuff. I hope the mods will feature your thread.

Edit to add: It is featured at CT now. Congratulations.
View attachment 656218
Click to expand...

TIF said: ↑

I think they did while you were reading it
Click to expand...

Thanks you guys I had as much fun researching and writing the essay as I did hunting for just the right example. I'm super happy to get another featured thread! Thank you to whomever nominated it.

Every time I start seriously researching one of my recent acquisitions it leads to 3-5 more related coin types that I decide I want... and the hunt begins again

TIF said: ↑

Great stuff, Curtisimo! Although... now the competition for these will increase. Thanks a lot bro-- you just cost us all more money
Click to expand...

Haha I thought of that when both you and @Ken Dorney expressed interest in getting one... glad I already have mine

Collect89 · Jul 27, 2017

Roman Republic
AR Quadrigatus
225 – 215 B.C.
6.22 gms, 22 mm
Obv: Janiform Head within beaded border
Rev: Quadriga right driven by Nike
carrying Jupiter throwing
thunderbolt. Inverse relief ROMA
on tablet in exergue
Grade: good VF+ with minor flaws / rough planchet at 3:00 on the reverse. Overall very attractive including dark cabinet toning, good centering and strike.
Other: From the ancient Greek city state of Rome (before Rome kicked everyone in the butt). Sear book #80, RSC-23, Craw 29/3

Roman Republic
AR Victoriatus
ca. 211 B.C.
2.97gms, 16-17.5 mm
Obv: Laureate bust of Jupiter right
Rev: Victory standing facing right
crowning a trophy. ROMA in ex
Grade: good VF+ to aEF with strong well centered strike, attractive cabinet toning and nice original surfaces. Minor breaks in the reverse toning due to benign neglect (cabinet friction).
Other: From the ancient Greek city state of Rome (before Rome warred with other Greek city states for control of modern day Italy). Sear book #80, Crawford 44/1. Ex-RBW, ex NFA (Garrett III) Lot 360, 3/29/85. From JA & AN private sales 2016.

Ken Dorney · Jul 27, 2017

Curtisimo said: ↑

Haha I thought of that when both you and @Ken Dorney expressed interest in getting one... glad I already have mine
Click to expand...

Except that I forget most of what I become interested in. I have always been a distracted collector. Twelve Caesars in bronze, Mt. Argaeus, Hadrian sestertii, 'evil emperors'...all started but never finished as I always find another shiny object to chase after (or in my case dull, as I prefer base metals).

Deacon Ray · Jul 27, 2017

Curtisimo said: ↑

...this essay...
Click to expand...

Awesome post! You should author a coffee table book. You definitely have the talent! I'll take a hundred copies

randygeki · Jul 27, 2017

An excellent thread!

Curtisimo · Jul 27, 2017

Deacon Ray said: ↑

Awesome post! You should author a coffee table book. You definitely have the talent! I'll take a hundred copies
Click to expand...

Thanks @Deacon Ray My loooong term goal once I have an extensive enough collection is to someday cobble together a website showing the coins I've acquired along with some general historical information similar to what @TIF has put together.

randygeki said: ↑

An excellent thread!
Click to expand...

Thanks Randy.

RAGNAROK · Jul 27, 2017

Thank you, mate!

TJC · Jul 27, 2017

At Curtisimo, great coin! Super fantastic write-up!! Thanks for putting all of it together!

Curtisimo · Jul 27, 2017

TJC said: ↑

At Curtisimo, great coin! Super fantastic write-up!! Thanks for putting all of it together!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words @TJC.

One thing I should have included in my initial post that I just thought about is a call for Punic coins of the war as well! It would be fascinating to see some of the Spanish silver the Barcids used to pay their mercenary armies! @Alegandron ... a little help on that front

And feel free to post your RR coins of any era. I'm on the lookout for my next republican Denarius target

Johndoe2000$ · Jul 27, 2017

Super post, and coin.

Alegandron · Jul 27, 2017

Carthage - 2nd Punic War:

Celtiberia - Barcid Spain

Carthage - Celtiberia Quarter-Calco Tanit-Helmet -Traveling Mint with Carthage Army 212-209 BCE

Bruttium Occupation

Bruttium Carthage occup AR Half-Shekel 216-211 Tanit Horse SOLAR-O HN Italy 2016 SNG Cop 361-3

Bruttium Carthage occup AR Half-Shekel 216-211 Tanit Horse SOLARdisc HN Italy 2016

Bruttium AE 18 Hemiobol 215-205 BC 2nd Punic Nymph Terina Nike Zeus

Carthage Mint

Carthage mint 2nd Punic War 215-201 BCE AE Shekel Tanit Horse stepping kerykeion SNG Cop 327

Carthage AE Trishekel Tanit Horse 220-215 BCE 30mm 19.7g Lot 36

Carthage AE Trishekel Tanit Horse 220-215 BCE 30mm 17.6g Lot 35

Sicily Occupation:

Sicily Akragas Punic occup 213-210 BC AR Half Shekel 19 mm 2.9g Male head r Triptolemos wreath grain -Horse leaping r Punic Ḥ SNG COP 378

Curtisimo · Jul 27, 2017

Alegandron said: ↑

Carthage - 2nd Punic War:

Celtiberia - Barcid Spain
View attachment 656441
Carthage - Celtiberia Quarter-Calco Tanit-Helmet -Traveling Mint with Carthage Army 212-209 BCE

Bruttium Occupation
View attachment 656442
Bruttium Carthage occup AR Half-Shekel 216-211 Tanit Horse SOLAR-O HN Italy 2016 SNG Cop 361-3

View attachment 656443
Bruttium Carthage occup AR Half-Shekel 216-211 Tanit Horse SOLARdisc HN Italy 2016

View attachment 656450
Bruttium AE 18 Hemiobol 215-205 BC 2nd Punic Nymph Terina Nike Zeus

Carthage Mint
View attachment 656444
Carthage mint 2nd Punic War 215-201 BCE AE Shekel Tanit Horse stepping kerykeion SNG Cop 327

View attachment 656445
Carthage AE Trishekel Tanit Horse 220-215 BCE 30mm 19.7g Lot 36

View attachment 656446
Carthage AE Trishekel Tanit Horse 220-215 BCE 30mm 17.6g Lot 35

Sicily Occupation:
View attachment 656449
Sicily Akragas Punic occup 213-210 BC AR Half Shekel 19 mm 2.9g Male head r Triptolemos wreath grain -Horse leaping r Punic Ḥ SNG COP 378
Click to expand...

WOW!! Your collection is epic Brian! The AE Trishekels are both superb.

Johndoe2000$ said: ↑

Super post, and coin.
Click to expand...

Thanks @Johndoe2000$

RAGNAROK said: ↑

Thank you, mate!
Click to expand...

@RAGNAROK!!! I haven't seen you post in a while. Glad to see you back mate

RAGNAROK · Jul 27, 2017

Curtisimo said: ↑

WOW!! Your collection is epic Brian! The AE Trishekels are both superb.

Thanks @Johndoe2000$

@RAGNAROK!!! I haven't seen you post in a while. Glad to see you back mate
Click to expand...

Hi, ma mate! Work, Work, Work... ye know...

And "it" has not been easy at all...

And remember that we have a little pending "celtic affair"...

unkiebub37 · Jul 27, 2017

Curtisimo said: ↑

6.0 – Influence of the First Denarii on Modern Coins

The basic obverse design of the first denarii remained popular on the subsequent denarii designs for well over over 100 years after its introduction. It’s design, and specifically the portrait of Roma, have been incredibly influential to modern coin designers. Some of the most beautiful classic coins from around the world have drawn their inspiration from it. I’ve highlighted a few below that I hope you will all find interesting.

6.1 – The United States – 1916 - 1943 Mercury Dime

In my research for this essay I have found that there is some disagreement about whether the US Mercury dime drew inspiration from Republican denarii. However, considering the amount of Roman Republican symbolism that went into it’s design I consider the suggestion the the artist (Adolf Weinman) was not fully aware of his coin’s similarities to it’s ancient predessessor to be entirely absurd. However, this actually enhances my estimation of Mr. Weinman’s design abilities because he was still able to produce a unique and interesting piece of numismatic art.

View attachment 656101

Okay, so I know what some of you are thinking... “Has Curtisimo lost his mind? What is he doing posting one of his modern coins in the ancients forum! Lets run him out of town!” Please hear me out my friends! The coins I intend to discuss will be appealing to all major branches of numismatics.

For this write up I would like to focus on the ancient symbolism of the coin but those of you who are interested to learn more about the coin’s production and design might find the below article interesting.

http://www.usacoinbook.com/encyclopedia/coin-designers/adolph-a-weinman/

The obverse of the Mercury Dime shows Liberty wearing a Phrygian cap with wings. The wings were included to represent freedom of thought and are reminiscent of the denarius. From about the 18th century the Phrygian cap was used as a symbol of freedom because it was believed at the time that it was this cap that was associated with the manumition of slaves in ancient republican Rome. However, this was a mistake! The Phrygian cap was associated in antiquity with the ancient Kingdom of Phrygia (ca. 1200-700 BC) which is said to have fought on the side of the Trojans during the Trojan War (Figure 10). As such, in ancient art the Phrygian cap was used to signify someone (like the Trojan, Paris) who came from the east.

View attachment 656105
Figure 10 – Anceint Near East ca. 824-671 BC (Wikipedia)

The cap associated with the manumision of slaves in the late Republic was known as the pileus cap. It was given to a freed slave as part of a ceremony performed by a praetor. The most famous use of the pileus cap as a symbol of liberty is the famous Eid Mar denarius. The cap, flanked by daggers, is clearly a message from Brutus that by killing Caesar he had freed Rome from slavery under a tyrant (Figure 11).

View attachment 656104
Figure 11 – EID MAR Denarius CNG; Triton XIX, Lot: 421 (Obviously not my coin )

The pileus is simple and conical in shape as opposed to the Phrygian cap with it’s distinctive long top pulled forward. See Figure 12 for comparisson.

View attachment 656106
Figure 12 – Mistaken symbolism on the US Mercury Dime (Modified from Wikipedia Photos)

The reverse is also full of ancient symbolism with the inclusion of the fasces. The fasces was a bundle of wooden sticks tied together, sometimes around and axe. The sticks represented the strength of a unified state and the axe represented the states authority over life and death. The fasces were carried by lictors (basically bodyguards) that travelled with a magistrate (see figure 13). It was illegal for anyone but a dictator to have an axe in their fasces within the sacred city, or pomerium, of Rome which makes its inclusion on the dime somewhat curious. In an unfortunate coincidence the fasces would later become a symbol of Mussolini’s fascist party and provide the basis of its name.

View attachment 656107
Figure 13 – The ancient fasces

6.2 – Albania - 1927-R Frang Ar

Perhaps the most aesthetically pleasing and stylistically consistent example of influence from the ancient republican denarius comes from a rare issue of the Albanian 1 Frang Ar. This might at first seem like a strange place to find ancient Roman imagery until you realize that this coin was actually struck in Rome and designed by an Italian, Giuseppe Romagnoli, during what might be considered a golden age in Italian neoclassical coin design.

Victor Emmanuel III was the King of Italy at the time (from 1900 to 1946) and was one of the most prolific coin collectors in history. During his reign he insisted that the mint draw inspiration from Italy’s classical past. This even extended to the coinage of countries such as Albania that were de-facto client states to Italy at the time.

View attachment 656103
Image curtesy of Todd at http://www.bluccphotos.com/

Everything from the style of the facial features to the detailing of the helmet and articulation of the wing is very consistent with my ancient example. The reverse shows the prow of an ancient Roman ship with the “R” at the bottom to signify it was minted in Rome. The reverse is likely an homage to the ship design started on the large cast Aes coinage of Rome that commemorated Rome’s relatively new-found prowess as a naval power just before the Second Punic War.

The beautiful example above belongs to CTs own @Stork who was kind enough to give me permission to reference it in this essay. On top of that I had an opportunity to browse through her website which I found to be an amazing resource and learning tool for world coins. I have included a link below for those of you who are interested in taking a look at the site.

http://www.starcityhomer.com/albanian-coins.html

6.3 – St. Pierre & Miquelon (France) – 1948 2 Francs

View attachment 656102
This is a nice world coin that continues with the theme of wing headed female personifications. It was designed by Lucien George Bazor and struck at the Paris Mint for the French administered island of St. Pierre & Miquelon for only one year in 1948. The obverse shows an interesting Art Deco take on the classic designs we have seen so far and the reverse features a ship.

So is there anyone still with me?...

If so please

POST YOUR ROMAN REPUBLICAN COINS! I know you got ‘em so let’s see ‘em.

And just to mix it up a bit lets also

POST YOUR FAVORITE MODERN COIN SHOWING AN ANCIENT THEME!
Click to expand...

unkiebub37 · Jul 27, 2017

never read a better article..only collect 1850-1940 European silver..G.B., Germany, etc, but love learning ancient history, especially about silver coins..thanks from a seldom responder...unk

Curtisimo · Jul 27, 2017

unkiebub37 said: ↑

never read a better article..only collect 1850-1940 European silver..G.B., Germany, etc, but love learning ancient history, especially about silver coins..thanks from a seldom responder...unk
Click to expand...

Wow that's one of the nicest compliments I've gotten in a long time! Thank you @unkiebub37 I appreciate you commenting on my post!

PMONNEY · Jul 28, 2017

Curtisimo said: ↑

6.0 – Influence of the First Denarii on Modern Coins

The basic obverse design of the first denarii remained popular on the subsequent denarii designs for well over over 100 years after its introduction. It’s design, and specifically the portrait of Roma, have been incredibly influential to modern coin designers. Some of the most beautiful classic coins from around the world have drawn their inspiration from it. I’ve highlighted a few below that I hope you will all find interesting.

6.1 – The United States – 1916 - 1943 Mercury Dime

In my research for this essay I have found that there is some disagreement about whether the US Mercury dime drew inspiration from Republican denarii. However, considering the amount of Roman Republican symbolism that went into it’s design I consider the suggestion the the artist (Adolf Weinman) was not fully aware of his coin’s similarities to it’s ancient predessessor to be entirely absurd. However, this actually enhances my estimation of Mr. Weinman’s design abilities because he was still able to produce a unique and interesting piece of numismatic art.

View attachment 656101

Okay, so I know what some of you are thinking... “Has Curtisimo lost his mind? What is he doing posting one of his modern coins in the ancients forum! Lets run him out of town!” Please hear me out my friends! The coins I intend to discuss will be appealing to all major branches of numismatics.

For this write up I would like to focus on the ancient symbolism of the coin but those of you who are interested to learn more about the coin’s production and design might find the below article interesting.

http://www.usacoinbook.com/encyclopedia/coin-designers/adolph-a-weinman/

The obverse of the Mercury Dime shows Liberty wearing a Phrygian cap with wings. The wings were included to represent freedom of thought and are reminiscent of the denarius. From about the 18th century the Phrygian cap was used as a symbol of freedom because it was believed at the time that it was this cap that was associated with the manumition of slaves in ancient republican Rome. However, this was a mistake! The Phrygian cap was associated in antiquity with the ancient Kingdom of Phrygia (ca. 1200-700 BC) which is said to have fought on the side of the Trojans during the Trojan War (Figure 10). As such, in ancient art the Phrygian cap was used to signify someone (like the Trojan, Paris) who came from the east.

View attachment 656105
Figure 10 – Anceint Near East ca. 824-671 BC (Wikipedia)

The cap associated with the manumision of slaves in the late Republic was known as the pileus cap. It was given to a freed slave as part of a ceremony performed by a praetor. The most famous use of the pileus cap as a symbol of liberty is the famous Eid Mar denarius. The cap, flanked by daggers, is clearly a message from Brutus that by killing Caesar he had freed Rome from slavery under a tyrant (Figure 11).

View attachment 656104
Figure 11 – EID MAR Denarius CNG; Triton XIX, Lot: 421 (Obviously not my coin )

The pileus is simple and conical in shape as opposed to the Phrygian cap with it’s distinctive long top pulled forward. See Figure 12 for comparisson.

View attachment 656106
Figure 12 – Mistaken symbolism on the US Mercury Dime (Modified from Wikipedia Photos)

The reverse is also full of ancient symbolism with the inclusion of the fasces. The fasces was a bundle of wooden sticks tied together, sometimes around and axe. The sticks represented the strength of a unified state and the axe represented the states authority over life and death. The fasces were carried by lictors (basically bodyguards) that travelled with a magistrate (see figure 13). It was illegal for anyone but a dictator to have an axe in their fasces within the sacred city, or pomerium, of Rome which makes its inclusion on the dime somewhat curious. In an unfortunate coincidence the fasces would later become a symbol of Mussolini’s fascist party and provide the basis of its name.

View attachment 656107
Figure 13 – The ancient fasces

6.2 – Albania - 1927-R Frang Ar

Perhaps the most aesthetically pleasing and stylistically consistent example of influence from the ancient republican denarius comes from a rare issue of the Albanian 1 Frang Ar. This might at first seem like a strange place to find ancient Roman imagery until you realize that this coin was actually struck in Rome and designed by an Italian, Giuseppe Romagnoli, during what might be considered a golden age in Italian neoclassical coin design.

Victor Emmanuel III was the King of Italy at the time (from 1900 to 1946) and was one of the most prolific coin collectors in history. During his reign he insisted that the mint draw inspiration from Italy’s classical past. This even extended to the coinage of countries such as Albania that were de-facto client states to Italy at the time.

View attachment 656103
Image curtesy of Todd at http://www.bluccphotos.com/

Everything from the style of the facial features to the detailing of the helmet and articulation of the wing is very consistent with my ancient example. The reverse shows the prow of an ancient Roman ship with the “R” at the bottom to signify it was minted in Rome. The reverse is likely an homage to the ship design started on the large cast Aes coinage of Rome that commemorated Rome’s relatively new-found prowess as a naval power just before the Second Punic War.

The beautiful example above belongs to CTs own @Stork who was kind enough to give me permission to reference it in this essay. On top of that I had an opportunity to browse through her website which I found to be an amazing resource and learning tool for world coins. I have included a link below for those of you who are interested in taking a look at the site.

http://www.starcityhomer.com/albanian-coins.html

6.3 – St. Pierre & Miquelon (France) – 1948 2 Francs

View attachment 656102
This is a nice world coin that continues with the theme of wing headed female personifications. It was designed by Lucien George Bazor and struck at the Paris Mint for the French administered island of St. Pierre & Miquelon for only one year in 1948. The obverse shows an interesting Art Deco take on the classic designs we have seen so far and the reverse features a ship.

So is there anyone still with me?...

If so please

POST YOUR ROMAN REPUBLICAN COINS! I know you got ‘em so let’s see ‘em.

And just to mix it up a bit lets also

POST YOUR FAVORITE MODERN COIN SHOWING AN ANCIENT THEME!
Click to expand...

Mikey Zee said: ↑

I couldn't agree more!!!

Superb presentation and so many wonderful posts!!

I'll share this later denarius by Sulla's son honoring his fathers exploits:

Faustus Cornelius Sulla. AR Denarius (18-19 mm, 3.44 g). Rome, 56 BC.
Obv. FAVSTVS , diademed and draped bust of Diana right, crescent above, lituus behind.
Rev. FELIX , Sulla seated left on raised platform between King Bocchus of Mauretania on left, presenting him with wreath, and King Jugurta of Numidia on right, hands bound behind him, both kneeling.

The moneyer of this coin was the son of the dictator Sulla. The reverse commemorates one of the most important events of his father’s early career: the capture of Jugurtha. Jugurtha was a Numidian prince who had served in the Roman auxiliary cavalry, but who had come to blows with the Romans. Metellus Numidicus was given command to defeat Jugurtha, but Jugurtha was proving a wily adversary and through several campaigning seasons Numidicus was unable to defeat him. In 107 BC one of his legates, Marius, who disagreed with Numidicus’ strategy for prosecuting the war, gained the consulship and also command in Numidia. However, Jugurtha was proving just as slippery for Marius as he had been for Numidicus. One of Marius’ junior officers was Sulla, and he managed to capture Jugurtha through a ruse. He invited both Jugurtha and Bocchus, the King of Mauretania and Jugurtha’s father-in-law, to a meeting. In advance of the meeting he had convinced Bocchus to betray Jugurtha, and when Jugurtha arrived unarmed his attendants were ambushed and Jugurtha was captured. Bocchus immediately handed him over to Sulla. Sulla had a signet ring engraved showing the event, and the reverse of this coin may be a direct copy of that signet ring.
Click to expand...

Mikey Zee said: ↑

I couldn't agree more!!!

Superb presentation and so many wonderful posts!!

I'll share this later denarius by Sulla's son honoring his fathers exploits:

Faustus Cornelius Sulla. AR Denarius (18-19 mm, 3.44 g). Rome, 56 BC.
Obv. FAVSTVS , diademed and draped bust of Diana right, crescent above, lituus behind.
Rev. FELIX , Sulla seated left on raised platform between King Bocchus of Mauretania on left, presenting him with wreath, and King Jugurta of Numidia on right, hands bound behind him, both kneeling.

The moneyer of this coin was the son of the dictator Sulla. The reverse commemorates one of the most important events of his father’s early career: the capture of Jugurtha. Jugurtha was a Numidian prince who had served in the Roman auxiliary cavalry, but who had come to blows with the Romans. Metellus Numidicus was given command to defeat Jugurtha, but Jugurtha was proving a wily adversary and through several campaigning seasons Numidicus was unable to defeat him. In 107 BC one of his legates, Marius, who disagreed with Numidicus’ strategy for prosecuting the war, gained the consulship and also command in Numidia. However, Jugurtha was proving just as slippery for Marius as he had been for Numidicus. One of Marius’ junior officers was Sulla, and he managed to capture Jugurtha through a ruse. He invited both Jugurtha and Bocchus, the King of Mauretania and Jugurtha’s father-in-law, to a meeting. In advance of the meeting he had convinced Bocchus to betray Jugurtha, and when Jugurtha arrived unarmed his attendants were ambushed and Jugurtha was captured. Bocchus immediately handed him over to Sulla. Sulla had a signet ring engraved showing the event, and the reverse of this coin may be a direct copy of that signet ring.
Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing this fascinating story

Curtisimo · Jul 28, 2017

Mikey Zee said: ↑

I couldn't agree more!!!

Superb presentation and so many wonderful posts!!

I'll share this later denarius by Sulla's son honoring his fathers exploits:

Faustus Cornelius Sulla. AR Denarius (18-19 mm, 3.44 g). Rome, 56 BC.
Obv. FAVSTVS , diademed and draped bust of Diana right, crescent above, lituus behind.
Rev. FELIX , Sulla seated left on raised platform between King Bocchus of Mauretania on left, presenting him with wreath, and King Jugurta of Numidia on right, hands bound behind him, both kneeling.

The moneyer of this coin was the son of the dictator Sulla. The reverse commemorates one of the most important events of his father’s early career: the capture of Jugurtha. Jugurtha was a Numidian prince who had served in the Roman auxiliary cavalry, but who had come to blows with the Romans. Metellus Numidicus was given command to defeat Jugurtha, but Jugurtha was proving a wily adversary and through several campaigning seasons Numidicus was unable to defeat him. In 107 BC one of his legates, Marius, who disagreed with Numidicus’ strategy for prosecuting the war, gained the consulship and also command in Numidia. However, Jugurtha was proving just as slippery for Marius as he had been for Numidicus. One of Marius’ junior officers was Sulla, and he managed to capture Jugurtha through a ruse. He invited both Jugurtha and Bocchus, the King of Mauretania and Jugurtha’s father-in-law, to a meeting. In advance of the meeting he had convinced Bocchus to betray Jugurtha, and when Jugurtha arrived unarmed his attendants were ambushed and Jugurtha was captured. Bocchus immediately handed him over to Sulla. Sulla had a signet ring engraved showing the event, and the reverse of this coin may be a direct copy of that signet ring.
Click to expand...

This type is now on my list Mikey. Thank you for making me aware of it.

This forum is good on the brain and bad on the wallet

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Featured The Story of the Coin Struck to Fight Hannibal: The First Denarius and its Influence

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