The Sky is fallingl on all ms70 and pr70 coins....

Does anyone remember the bennie baby dolls? My husband saw someone buying A LOT of Happy Meals at McDonals. She threw the food away and kept the dolls. Bet she wished she didn't buy all those meals for a dud fad.

 

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If you were around in the last great depression (1930's) you would realize today that all price values are relative. In those times a loaf of bread cost you less than a quarter, today you pay up to $ 3.00.

Conversely, just 40 years ago you could buy a house for around $ 15,000.00. Today the same house will cost you $300,000.

Standing liberty MS70 coins are going mostly in the $ 2,000.00 range and up today. However just a few years ago they were going for just $ 30.00 in BU condition.

Many things cause the fluctuation of gold & silver prices, world events such as the "cold Wars" cause instability of the economy, also the current economic situation we are in today brought on by Wall Street mismanagements.

I truly believe this is why we are seeing a temporary decline in MS70 coin values today. If and when the economy straightens out, the MS70 coin value will return and increase in price, just as it has in the past.

 

MS70 coins, like others have said, are dangerous for the hobby due to the fact many people will get burned when they learn they have bought overpriced goods that have no hope to get a quarter of their money back. I still say the basis of this hobby is old fashioned collectors who want rare coins. These MS70's sold on tv, etc are not rare by any stretch.

I also agree with others comparing them to beanie babies and baseball cards. Both of those fads had incredible prices for Gem Mint, mint tags, whatever. They crashed because there were not enough base collectors, only the speculators waiting to make their "killing". After a few years when it became apparent that no one wanted their goods, a few started selling out, and the market crashed. Now those hobbies have lost tens of thousands or millions of prospective collectors since they have been badly burned. That is what I am afraid of for coin collecting, and I lay the blame at the feet of TPG'ers who slab this crud. They make a buck and the hobby suffers. They know darn well the likelihood of shysterism when they slab modern coins, which is why for 15 years they promised they never would. Every promise ever made to the hobby from TPG'ers has been broken.

 

Credits to Ltrain for the nice photo...

1. BU =/= MS70(or PR70 for that matter)

2. I highly doubt there are any MS70 SLQ's left.

 

You are correct about the MS70's no longer around. At least they are not listed in Coin Values. The highest ranking value is the MS66H (full Head) with prices going from 1,200to 75,000. That being said, who knows what grade a BU coin actually was in todays grading standards. It could have been anything from a AU58 on up. 40 years ago the grading standards were only Good-Very Good-Fine-Very Fine-Extra Fine & Uncirculated. Since then, a dozen more grades have been added.

 

you have a better chance of hitting the lottery. :yes:

 

A little advice, take that Coin Values and burn it! It just ain't right!

 

Blast it all Paul, will you please post the grade on that beauty. I click on the pick and the tool bar at the bottom obscures the grade....

 

Great ! Good to have a goal.

When the money flows like water, and it may, forget the boats, suvs and toys. Buy Muni's, then when the work quits, retire. If you can get the bonding and can wait on payments, try government funded contracts. IMHO

 

After you click on it and the photo enlarges, move you mouse away and the tool bar will disappear to reveal a higher grade than Coin Values lists.

 

I guess you are right Paul, Coin Values has misleading information if you have a MS67FH slab and the magazine only rates up to MS66FH. ???????????

 

Now why the blazes didn't i think of that? She's a sweet thing....

 

People have been predicting the demise of moderns since they began soaring around 1984. The grading services were so sure these were sucker bets that they wouldn't even grade them initially and PCGS wouldn't allow them in the registry for years. Well, they were very very wrong and moderns just keep going up as many people bad mouth them. US and and world moderns are still the hottest coins out there.

It seems to me that if you're looking for bubbles then you need to look at where all the money is going; especially the "investment dollars". Well, guess what. It's going into old US coins not US and world moderns.

Every area has itrs risks and rewards and I'd hate to see people start investing in moderns. Perfect coins and high mintage NCLT are not the safest areas but at least you don't have to fight too many investors except for the most recent coins.

 

Clad, Nobody is predicting the demise of moderns -- only the price of MS/PR 70's. I would ask you one single (and very pointed) question to illustrate this point: How many slabbed MS/PR70's have you bought slabbed and are holding for the long term?

 

Yeah, I know but people are so quick to dismiss this stuff that they often forget and use all encompassing terms.

I Really don't believe that it's a foregone conclusion that these recent issues that are made in high grade must not have a lasting value in "perfect" condition. There can't be anything inherently wrong with collecting perfect coins so there can't be a certainty that they'll lose their premiums. A lot of people are having fun with this stuff and I know that some know what they're doing. I think this is really all the defense they really need.

This being said anyone buying this should be doing it only for pleasure. Investing in any collectible is highly risky and these are no exception. Anyone paying large premiums should be aware of what they can sell these for. This, too, is true for all coins since it's only when we sell that we learn what coins are really worth rather than what the dealers or sellers say. This is especially important for perfect coins and most moderns since none of these markets is mature or widespread. Collectors are well advised to know what these coins look like raw. You might find that cherry picking raw coins is far less expensive and more satisfying. And of course no one should pay a premium for any coin unless he knows and can see for himself the basis for that premium. There is a difference between MS-69 and MS-70 but if you can't see it then buy the lower grade.

No, I don't collect much of this yet but when I do you can bet I'll follow these general guidelines. It's easy to understand why people are expecting these to plummet and burn since they are often offered for sale by less than wholly reputable sale as an "investment". Coins offered as investments have always had the very worst track record unless you get in early. But the fact is that these are growing markets even if they might not be able to keep up with increasing supply as mint practices improve. There are real collectors even if a lot of them are beginners.

I think it's fully justified to warn people about any money they put at risk but I do believe there are now and always have been riskier choices. I wish everyone good luck especialloy with the coins they've bought primarily because they appeared too cheap. We don't really need much luck with the coins we bought for enjoyment.

 

I'll take that answer as "none".

 

I wasn't trying to say anything about people who simply wish to have 70 graded coins. My point is the non collectors who so many of these are sold. It smacks of shyterism, and TPG know they mostly will be sold this way. I worry about what a reputation the hobby will get with these offerings.

Anyone who is knowledgeable I never question their collecting tastes. I collect some stuff others may not believe is worth collecting, so each their own.

 

I don't much disagree but with all the shysterism around I don't see why most goes ignored.

It's not the finding, making, and selling of perfect coins that is shysterism but presentinmg them as investments. This same thing goes on with coins that are considered good investments and is ignored. Collectibles should not be marketed as investments. It's fine to do things to make them better investments but it's unfair to people to present them as investments. It is particularly bad when markets are immature and resale requires a do it yourself approach. Part of the problem is some of these markets are in very few hands and they sell at retail prices. There's nothing wrong with selling at retail but mark-ups can make the product very pricey. Buyers aren't always aware that the spread is significant so they lose half their money immediately. But this is the nature of a few of these; they aren't available wholesale.

I'd wager at least a few of these perfect coins do well over the years though most will disappoint anyone who bought them as a money making opportunity.

 

Just a thought from the fringe. Ever see the movie Charade staring Grant and Hepburn?

 

But without a TPG slab of "perfect" its harder for the shysters to charge a huge price. That is what I was referring to. They market these as "Numismatic EXPERTS have CERTIFIED these coins are PERFECT". Makes a better selling point than just a coin. Those guys just tick me off and when the buyers lose money they will blame coin collectors from stealing from them.

I do not doubt that a lot of these 70's will make good investments if you get them at a reasonable price, not TV shyster prices. I have been saying modern commemoratives are getting a little overlooked now due to buyer fatique. They aren't for me, I want a couple thousand of years of age on mine, but for others they could be great buys.