The roman PALUDAMENTUM challenge

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ocatarinetabellatchitchix, Jun 7, 2019.

  1. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Well-Known Member

    Many people around me think coin collectors are weirdos. We spend hours admiring 2000 years old objects, some of us use needles and toothpicks to clean them, and in our spare times we enjoy making researches in references books that 99% of humans don’t understand. And I’m not talking about the dependance to spend big money for expanding our collection.....
    We are not traveling, not playing sports , not having a social life and we dress like in the 60s !
    So let’s make an exception tonight. Let’s discuss about style, design, fashion and mode. Let’s talk about PALUDAMENTUM.
    Definition: a military cloak or cape worn by commanders, principal officers and personal attendants in the roman army. It was different from the sagum of the common soldier and the toga or garb of peace. Also sleeveless, open in front, reached down to the knees, and hung loosely over the shoulders, being fastened at the neck, in front or ( more typically ) on one side, with a clasp or a fibula. The Paludamentum was generally crimson, scarlet or purple in colour.. It was exclusively worn by emperors after the reign of Augustus. When an emperor was setting out for war, he went first to Rome and was there invested with the imperial mantle. And what about the greek chlamys ? Tacitus tells us how the splendid naumachia exhibited by Claudius was viewed by Agrippina dressed chlamyde aurata, while Pliny and Dion Cassius in narrating the same story both used the expression paludamento aurotextili . So we can conclude they are exactly the same.

    Here we can see a few examples :

    Antoninus Pius
    A881D112-058A-4B0B-AFC3-A6F787CE545A.jpeg

    Julius Caesar
    7D9C3210-CFE7-44B9-9828-3E07E0620530.jpeg

    Marcus Aurelius
    DBAF16DC-2012-4871-B33C-65371C721F9A.jpeg

    Vespasian
    1A10F0C4-C66F-4019-9529-DD767F283C07.jpeg

    And on coins :


    Philip I
    39DE887B-AD4B-4544-AFCF-E536A431E31F.jpeg

    Postumus reverse : Mars nude but Paludamentum on shoulders...
    DB9E8D21-9E58-4B13-AE9F-5B8A535F9FF4.jpeg

    The title of this thread is « the roman Paludamentum challenge ». I will need your help to achieve it. How many emperors or god wearing a Paludamentum can we find ? Thirty ? Fourty ? Or even more ? So please show us your coins !
     
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  3. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    Well, both my Philip I coins definitely have him wearing a military cape....

    Philip I Ant 246AD.jpg

    Though it's more obvious on the tetradrachm.

    Philip I Tetadrachm of Antioch.jpeg (1).jpg
     
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  4. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    FLORIANUS
    [​IMG]
    FLORIAN AE23mm 3.54g Antoninian/Aurelian (VF, patina, deposits)
    AV: IMP C M AN FLORIANVS P AVG; radiate, cuirassed and draped with paludamentum, seen from rear bust r.
    REV: CONCORD MILIT; Emperor togate stg. r., clasping the hand of Concordia stg. l.
    EXE: S
    REF: LV 2738; RIC V-1 57var (unlisted bust type), RIC Online #4294 7 specs listed, only one in La Venera, and only 2 from prior sales; 1st issue for Siscia mint, 2nd officina, july-august 276AD.
    A rare coin from a very brief reign, as Florian has only reigned for a couple of moths in the summer of 276AD
    Ex: @seth77
     
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  5. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    I'm assuming the "drapery" Tbomb is wearing is one.
    It certainly appears to be, adorning one of my favs! #manliestguyever

    65FD1026-0036-441C-AFBE-A1FEA30F4FC7.png
    Trajan
    RIC 52 Traianus (98-117 AD). AR Denarius (19 mm, 2.94 g), Roma (Rome), 101-102 AD.Obv. IMP CAES NERVA TRAIAN AVG GERM, laureate bust right, drapery on left shoulder.Rev. P M TR P COS IIII P P, Mars walking right, carrying spear and trophy.
     
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  6. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    florian 2.jpg
    FLORIANUS
    Silvered Antoninianus
    OBVERSE: IMP FLORIANVS AVG, radiate, cuirassed and draped with paludamentum bust r
    REVERSE: CONCORDIA MILITVM; Victory stg. r., holding wreath in r. hand and palm against l. shoulder, facing Emperor in military dress stg. l., r. hand outstretched and holding long sceptre in l. hand Q in ex.
    Struck at 4th officina, Cyzicus mint, July-August 276AD.
    4.4g, 20mm
    RIC V-1 116, RIC Online #4533
     
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  7. David@PCC

    David@PCC allcoinage.com

    ri255.jpg
    Constantius II
    Mint: Antioch
    324 to 325 AD
    AE Follis
    Obvs: Laureate, draped, and cuirass bust left.
    Revs: CONSTAN TI•VS CAESAR SMANTS in four lines. Star above, dot below.
    16x18mm, 2.32g
    Ref: RIC VII 60; LRBC 1327
     
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  8. Shea19

    Shea19 Well-Known Member

    I never knew there was a name for those things...I learn something new every day on this site.

    You can see it very well on this Valentinian I.

    7E26C7AC-67A8-4AEB-A0AE-D1861195CF34.jpeg
    Valentinian I, 364-375. AE Follis (19 mm, 3.37 g), Sirmium, 364. D N VALENTINI-ANVS P F AVG Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust to right. Rev. VOT / V / MVLT / X in four lines within laurelwreath; in exergue, BSIRM.
     
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  9. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Great example on this Delmatius:

    Delmatius GLORIA EXERCITVS Siscia.jpg Delmatius GLORIA EXERCITVS Sulzer listing.JPG
     
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  10. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    My latest coin... you can see the cape quite sharp and detailed.

    9AgDZmC8qQ7ySnx3B6sHEaP25D4or5.jpg
     
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  11. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Beautiful new Constantius ii!!
    I have a similar one (my very best LRB) given to me by our very own @Severus Alexander!
    969DA555-205A-4121-8C54-1724462DB6D6.png
     
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  12. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    The fourth century depictions of this feature seem to be the most detailed and impressive, eh?

    Screen Shot 2019-06-07 at 10.44.24 PM.jpg
    Screen Shot 2019-06-07 at 10.43.49 PM.jpg
    Screen Shot 2019-06-07 at 10.43.21 PM.jpg
    Screen Shot 2019-06-07 at 10.33.40 PM.jpg
    Screen Shot 2019-06-07 at 10.41.21 PM.jpg
     
  13. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    If I understand correctly, this paludamentum is the garment referred to on coins whose bust is described a "draped"? Don't most emperors have at least a few coins on which they are depicted "draped"?

    [​IMG]
    EGYPT, Alexandria. Lucius Verus
    year 4, CE 163/4
    tetradrachm, 24 mm, 13.51 gm
    Obv: ΛAVPHΛI OVHPOCCEB; bareheaded, draped, and cuirassed bust left
    Rev: Radiate and draped bust of Serapis-Pantheos right, wearing calathus and horn of Ammon; trident behind shoulder; ∆/L in right field
    Ref: Emmett 2360 (4), R1; Köln 2148; Dattari (Savio) 9420; K&G 39.77

    [​IMG]
    Hadrian drachm / personification of Alexandria, wearing elephant skin head dress, kissing the hand of Hadrian. 35 mm, 24.8 gm. Emmett 964.15
     
  14. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Well-Known Member

    From the Dictionary of Roman coins: « The cuirass and paludamentum often appear together. Some coins, however, present the figures of Emperors in the cuirass without the military cloak; yet the paludamentum over the tucked-up tunic is more rarely to be seen without the cuirass. »
    It seems there is a bit of confusion about the exact description on many coins. Very often,we only see ‘imperial mantle ´. Some pretends that we have to look at the size of the fibula to judge if the emperor is only draped or if he’s cuirassed ( and ready for war ) and wearing a Paludamentum....
     
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  15. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    Sometimes we see it folded on one shoulder (left here).

    [​IMG]

    Full frontal

    [​IMG]

    Helmeted, spear and shield but still draped....

    [​IMG]

    All courtesy of the giant wardrobe of Probus
     
  16. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

  17. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    uh..thats kool..i never paid much attention to that...:)
     
  18. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    Titus denarius Antioch mint Rv Neptune titusd10.JPG
     
  19. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Mars with a paludamentum:

    Trebonianus Gallus MARTI PACIFERO Antioch antoninianus.jpg
    Trebonianus Gallus MARTI PACIFERO Antioch antoninianus Banduri listing.JPG
     
  20. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Well-Known Member

    One of the nicest paludamentum « floating in the wind » I’have seen !
     
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  21. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Thanks! That's what attracted me to it, even though it doesn't exactly have 5/5 surfaces.
     
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