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<p>[QUOTE="DonnaML, post: 6455444, member: 110350"]But it should be indisputable that the Great Sphinx was by far the best-known sphinx of the "man-headed lion" type, both in Egypt and in the Roman world in general -- as opposed to the Greek-style female-headed sphinx with wings -- and that the average Greek, Roman, or Egyptian handling the coin would have recognized the Great Sphinx, not any other statue. (For one thing, many of the smaller sphinx statues, like the one at Memphis, had very noticeable beards, absent from both the Great Sphinx and the coin. See <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx_of_Memphis" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx_of_Memphis" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx_of_Memphis</a>.)</p><p><br /></p><p>As for the two comparatively small sphinxes in Alexandria that you keep mentioning -- and they are, in fact, a pair, rather than a single sphinx -- they are indeed beardless, but can you cite any evidence that they were anywhere near as famous among the Egyptians (and specifically the Roman and Greek Egyptians) as the Great Sphinx was? (Especially given the proximity of the even more famous Pyramids to the Great Sphinx.) Can you explain why the designers of this coin, the very first example of a Roman Alexandrian coin showing a crouching man-headed Sphinx (see Emmett) -- and one of only a small handful overall; see the examples of the Domitian sphinx coin and the crouching sphinx coins of Trajan, Antoninus Pius, and Marcus Aurelius at <a href="http://ancientcoinage.org/the-great-sphinx.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://ancientcoinage.org/the-great-sphinx.html" rel="nofollow">http://ancientcoinage.org/the-great-sphinx.html</a>, together with examples of many Greek-style sphinx coins -- would have chosen to portray one of the imitations, rather than the original, on that initial venture? It simply makes no sense. If you see a French coin depicting the Statue of Liberty, do you reasonably assume that it portrays the statue in New York, or do you say, well, perhaps it does, but perhaps it was intended to portray one of the several smaller replicas in Paris?</p><p><br /></p><p>Perhaps more importantly, can you cite any ancient Roman author who wrote about any man-headed sphinx statue, including the two at Alexandria, other than the Great Sphinx? (Are you certain that the two at Alexandria were even visible and unburied in Domitian's time?) There's no uncertainty, however, that it's the Great Sphinx that Pliny wrote about in Book XXXVIII, Ch. 17 of his Natural History. See <a href="http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/textdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0137%3Abook%3D36%3Achapter%3D17" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/textdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0137%3Abook%3D36%3Achapter%3D17" rel="nofollow">http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/textdoc=Perseus:text:1999.02.0137:book=36:chapter=17</a>:</p><p><br /></p><p>"CHAP. 17.—THE EGYPTIAN SPHINX.</p><p>In front of these pyramids is the Sphinx, a still more wondrous object of art, but one upon which silence has been observed, as it is looked upon as a divinity by the people of the neighbourhood. It is their belief that King Harmaïs was buried in it, and they will have it that it was brought there from a distance. The truth is, however, that it was hewn from the solid rock; and, from a feeling of veneration, the face of the monster is coloured red. The circumference of the head, measured round the forehead, is one hundred and two feet, the length of the feet being one hundred and forty-three, and the height, from the belly to the summit of the asp on the head, sixty-two."</p><p><br /></p><p>Perhaps significantly, although Pliny the Elder published only the first 10 books of his "Natural History" before his death in AD 79 in the aftermath of the Vesuvius eruption, at the outset of Titus's brief reign, the remainder were published by his son Pliny the Younger -- largely in Domitian's reign. And, needless to say, they were all written by Pliny the Elder before 79 AD, reflecting the knowledge extant at the time.</p><p><br /></p><p>Furthermore, it's really quite dubious logically to take the numerical relationship between portrayals of Hannibal's elephants and other elephants on Roman coins, to suggest that the relationship is similar to that between the Great Sphinx and other man-headed sphinx statues, and then to conclude that an assumption that crouching man-headed Sphinx = Great Sphinx is just as unreasonable as an assumption that elephant on Roman coin = a portrayal of Hannibal's elephants.</p><p><br /></p><p>Elephants other than Hannibal's played a much larger role on Roman coins and in the Roman popular imagination than was the case for lesser man-headed sphinx statues other than the Great Sphinx -- statues that played a role that was virtually non-existent so far as I know, and so far as you've demonstrated. (If man-headed sphinxes in general were as indisputably well-known in the Greco-Roman world, and as commonly portrayed on coins, as Greek-style sphinxes, my opinion might be different.) In fact, I would only assume that an elephant on a Roman coin was intended to evoke memories of Hannibal's elephants when such a coin was issued by one of the several Republican moneyers descended from Lucius Caecilius Metellus, famous for defeating the Carthaginians at Panormus in Sicily in 251 BCE and capturing 120 war elephants. See <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Caecilius_Metellus_(consul_251_BC)" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Caecilius_Metellus_(consul_251_BC)" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Caecilius_Metellus_(consul_251_BC)</a>.</p><p><br /></p><p>Finally, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that you didn't intend to troll [USER=82616]@David Atherton[/USER]. But that's exactly how your posts came across -- especially from a new member who just joined yesterday but decided that it would be a good idea to devote his first posts to this argument. Not a good hill to die on.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="DonnaML, post: 6455444, member: 110350"]But it should be indisputable that the Great Sphinx was by far the best-known sphinx of the "man-headed lion" type, both in Egypt and in the Roman world in general -- as opposed to the Greek-style female-headed sphinx with wings -- and that the average Greek, Roman, or Egyptian handling the coin would have recognized the Great Sphinx, not any other statue. (For one thing, many of the smaller sphinx statues, like the one at Memphis, had very noticeable beards, absent from both the Great Sphinx and the coin. See [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx_of_Memphis[/URL].) As for the two comparatively small sphinxes in Alexandria that you keep mentioning -- and they are, in fact, a pair, rather than a single sphinx -- they are indeed beardless, but can you cite any evidence that they were anywhere near as famous among the Egyptians (and specifically the Roman and Greek Egyptians) as the Great Sphinx was? (Especially given the proximity of the even more famous Pyramids to the Great Sphinx.) Can you explain why the designers of this coin, the very first example of a Roman Alexandrian coin showing a crouching man-headed Sphinx (see Emmett) -- and one of only a small handful overall; see the examples of the Domitian sphinx coin and the crouching sphinx coins of Trajan, Antoninus Pius, and Marcus Aurelius at [URL]http://ancientcoinage.org/the-great-sphinx.html[/URL], together with examples of many Greek-style sphinx coins -- would have chosen to portray one of the imitations, rather than the original, on that initial venture? It simply makes no sense. If you see a French coin depicting the Statue of Liberty, do you reasonably assume that it portrays the statue in New York, or do you say, well, perhaps it does, but perhaps it was intended to portray one of the several smaller replicas in Paris? Perhaps more importantly, can you cite any ancient Roman author who wrote about any man-headed sphinx statue, including the two at Alexandria, other than the Great Sphinx? (Are you certain that the two at Alexandria were even visible and unburied in Domitian's time?) There's no uncertainty, however, that it's the Great Sphinx that Pliny wrote about in Book XXXVIII, Ch. 17 of his Natural History. See [URL='http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/textdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0137%3Abook%3D36%3Achapter%3D17']http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/textdoc=Perseus:text:1999.02.0137:book=36:chapter=17[/URL]: "CHAP. 17.—THE EGYPTIAN SPHINX. In front of these pyramids is the Sphinx, a still more wondrous object of art, but one upon which silence has been observed, as it is looked upon as a divinity by the people of the neighbourhood. It is their belief that King Harmaïs was buried in it, and they will have it that it was brought there from a distance. The truth is, however, that it was hewn from the solid rock; and, from a feeling of veneration, the face of the monster is coloured red. The circumference of the head, measured round the forehead, is one hundred and two feet, the length of the feet being one hundred and forty-three, and the height, from the belly to the summit of the asp on the head, sixty-two." Perhaps significantly, although Pliny the Elder published only the first 10 books of his "Natural History" before his death in AD 79 in the aftermath of the Vesuvius eruption, at the outset of Titus's brief reign, the remainder were published by his son Pliny the Younger -- largely in Domitian's reign. And, needless to say, they were all written by Pliny the Elder before 79 AD, reflecting the knowledge extant at the time. Furthermore, it's really quite dubious logically to take the numerical relationship between portrayals of Hannibal's elephants and other elephants on Roman coins, to suggest that the relationship is similar to that between the Great Sphinx and other man-headed sphinx statues, and then to conclude that an assumption that crouching man-headed Sphinx = Great Sphinx is just as unreasonable as an assumption that elephant on Roman coin = a portrayal of Hannibal's elephants. Elephants other than Hannibal's played a much larger role on Roman coins and in the Roman popular imagination than was the case for lesser man-headed sphinx statues other than the Great Sphinx -- statues that played a role that was virtually non-existent so far as I know, and so far as you've demonstrated. (If man-headed sphinxes in general were as indisputably well-known in the Greco-Roman world, and as commonly portrayed on coins, as Greek-style sphinxes, my opinion might be different.) In fact, I would only assume that an elephant on a Roman coin was intended to evoke memories of Hannibal's elephants when such a coin was issued by one of the several Republican moneyers descended from Lucius Caecilius Metellus, famous for defeating the Carthaginians at Panormus in Sicily in 251 BCE and capturing 120 war elephants. See [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Caecilius_Metellus_(consul_251_BC)[/URL]. Finally, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that you didn't intend to troll [USER=82616]@David Atherton[/USER]. But that's exactly how your posts came across -- especially from a new member who just joined yesterday but decided that it would be a good idea to devote his first posts to this argument. Not a good hill to die on.[/QUOTE]
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