The REAL Story of the Langbord 1933’s

The judge or venue must have been such that they feared not only losing the case and the coin, but also a precedent that legalized ALL pre-1933 gold coins as some have intimated has been done by various laws passed since 1950.

Why not just say that the Export License was a mistake and say it never should have been granted ? If the coin was "stolen" or illegally exchanged or exported, stick to your guns. Why settle and split the proceeds ?

I wonder if they knew something about the judge who'd hear the case and feared a sweeping precedent. Maybe the judge was a coin collector.

 

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Because it wasn't it was a political favor. You don't tell a foreign leader they can't have a gold coin they just bought

 

But if the coin is ILLEGAL you do !! Before the coin was sent to Farouk, they obtained the Export license. Once he had the coin, yes, it was a sticky situation. But had they asked more questions the 2 sides would have beein in synch.

Of course, had they contacted Mint officials who knew about the striking and minting of the 1933's, they probably would have realized ALL the coins were legit.

Instead, they reached a couple of hardasses who just assumed the coins were stolen.

 

Not how politics works, never has been never will be. It's naive to think they had no idea who the coin was for

 

It wasn't a political favor, it was just business as usual. An export license was requested and it was granted as standard operating procedure. The license was granted before they began paying any attention to the 1933 double eagles and they weren't considered to be "stolen" coins at the time. Later at the time of the 1954 sale of the palace collection the US Government DID ask the Egyptian government for the return of the coin. The Egyptian government declined, and the US government let it be known that if the coin was purchased and the buyer tried to bring it back to the US it would be confiscated. So it was withdrawn from the sale and disappeared until the Fenton coin showed up claiming to be the Farouk coin. (There is no proof that it was the Farouk coin and at least one of the people who was at the sale and who saw the coin said it wasn't the Farouk coin.)

 

I've heard that too that several people feel the Farouk coin was nicer and some believe that they kept the better or the two and sold the other passing it off as the Farouk one

 

Meanwhile, as the Flanagan sale and the Farouk Coin were changing hands...an entire bag of 1928 Saints -- 250 of them, $5,000 worth -- were stolen in 1933.

I personally think that is the reason the Mint was such hard-asses on the 1933's. They had someone (certainly on the inside) steal an entire bag of 1928's and they never found the thiefs.

Meanwhile, you have these wealthy and well-to-do coin collectors and dealers making 100x appreciation on a $20 gold coin and it probably ticked off guys making $2,000 a year.

 

This Greg Weinman has been a government employee for all of his professional career. Do you really think you are going to get any objective opinions from him?

 

I sure don't.

I saw his 2018 speech to PAN and he didn't offer any great defense of the government's actions.

I have to go over his numbers again -- the whole thing involving assay coins confuses me -- but the bottom line is that nobody in the Q&A asked him why they keep saying the coins were "stolen" of the gold books balanced.

 

If true, that means that another 1933 higher than MS65 could be out there. Right now, only 1 of the Switt-Langbord's grades MS66.

 

I think there are several 1933 DEs out there in private hands. I don't think any have been graded by TPGs. Allison Frankel has a picture of one in her book on the Farouk coin. Brings up the question of what would a TPG service do if one was submitted. Would they tell the government, send it back ungraded, or grade it and send it back? If you were in charge of a TPG service, what would you do?

Cal

 

One just got turned in to the Mint anonymously, I think the owner of the coin was nuts to do so.

Yeah, I've heard of that....some Texas owner, right ?

[qiuote]Brings up the question of what would a TPG service do if one was submitted. Would they tell the government, send it back ungraded, or grade it and send it back? If you were in charge of a TPG service, what would you do? Cal[/QUOTE]Good questions. I don't think the TPG's should contact the government because I don't believe the government has established that the coins were "stolen" or "unauthorized" in the first place.

The ANA and PNG I believe submitted briefs arguing against the Mint and Treasury.

 

That was the one recently turned in anonymously. It matched the coin in the Frankle picture. There are probably still at least 4 of them still out there. Back in the 70's it was pretty widely believed that Swit had 25 of them. The government had recovered ten. Then the ten Langbord coins showed up, that made twenty. Then the Frankel coin, that's 21. I suspect the 25 coin figure discussed in the 70's was probably correct.

They would grade it and send it back. There is precedence, see the Toven 1974 aluminum cent, and the 1974 D aluminum cent. Both had been previously declared government property. both were graded and sent back to their owners. Legally no pattern coin struck after 1896 can be privately owned. But a lot of them are out there slabbed and openly bought and sold.

 

Legally based on what ?

There are SO MANY out there, what's the precedent ? High-ranking mint officials have had dozens of these, including the 1907 UHR. Augustus Saint-Gaudens's widow had one...and Charles Barber had at least 4 !!!

What's with the 1896 year ?