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Message:: [QUOTE="Leadfoot, post: 752858, member: 2972"]I guess your definition of "dark" and my definition of "close to black" aren't the same.  Fair enough -- they are certainly subjective words.  However to illustrate the point I'm making, please take a photo of the coin with your hand or some other known tonality (a piece of white paper, for instance) along with the coin in indirect light and post it.   Similar to the way one would view a coin at arm's length.  That will show just what I'm referring to, and just how dark the coin is or is not. The first part is a fair criticism, particularly the way I worded the sentence you quoted.  Your point is a fair one with respect to toning on Morgans in particular and non-proofs.  However, that does not take away from the preceding point -- the coin appears much darker in hand. As an aside, and why I say that authoritatively, is because I know precisely the tonality of the plastic in a PCGS slab and the blue label.  So while I may not have seen the coin in-hand, I do have a very good idea of these known quantities.  I suspect you realize that, but some playing at home may not... Well said.  <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie1" alt=":)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />  FYI, I spend probably an hour at their table both years and looked carefully at every coin.  I inspected quite a number of coins under a light with a loupe.   Prior to the first time to their table, I did spend an evening on their website studying their photos.  I even had a nice conversation with Brandon and another collector while we waited for FUN to open one morning, in 2007, IIRC.   So perhaps scrutinizing their entire inventory was a bit overstated, but I did see every coin they had at their table, and went to their table the first year with the intent of answering the whole "what do these coins really look like in-hand" question.  That set aside for a moment, I don't think it's necessary for you to post your photographs, particularly because they are done using lighting and photographic techniques that mimic Brandon's.  However, as asked above, I would like you to take a few photos with the coin in an "arm's length" fashion to show some of those who haven't had the chance to view these types of coins in hand what they look like when not under the lights, as a demonstration of what I'm talking about.   Again, well said.  Your criticism is fair and duly noted.    I think most of the above is well said, however, I must reiterate that a few of the top end dealers should be considered the market.  I would suggest the vast majority of toned coins don't go through this handful of dealers.  As an aside, and why I think you and Doug/I butt heads quite a bit is because I think you are judging the market by your perspective of the market (i.e. through the internet).  Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that, but I think that my experience on the bourse has really changed the way I view the coin market.  Even more bluntly, I thought much like you did before I "saw the light" and spent more time on the bourse, and I have to wonder if that's not at least part of why we seem to butt heads on these topics.   And I think it is equally acceptable to point out the difference between the catchy title and the point being made by the initial post, particularly if the qualifying words were one sentence in the middle of a paragraph near the end of a long (and very nice, by the way) post.   <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie1" alt=":)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />[/QUOTE]

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