The Problem with German Coins!

Hm...didn't we fight The Bahamas in the 6 day revolutionary war? or am I mixed up there haha..I do have some German coins, and I agree the name was bad for this thread, and I do apologize. Also I know the Swastika, and the whole Aryan race thing had nothing to do with blue eyes on blonde hair. Correct me if I am wrong but a member of a people speaking an Indo-European language who invaded northern India in the 2nd millennium bc, displacing the Dravidian and other aboriginal peoples.

 

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Well I am impressed on all knowledge and information that comes from this forum.
I had no idea that the swastika symbol has had so much history, a coin from Sunga Empire 187-75 BC, a coin from 650 AD, the American infantry, Buddhist even the Scouts…WOW.

Thank you Goldstone for bringing this to a discussion.

 

The Weimar Republic has often been called a democracy without democrats - and that also applies to Hindenburg. Ultimately he was the man who appointed Hitler chancellor, thus head of government. So the nazis sure had reasons for being thankful to him, but they also wanted to insinuate a certain continuity in the initial phase of their regime. As in, look, the "dreaded Weimar" (their view) is over, but "good" old Hindenburg is on our side ...

Don't think you can learn much about the nazi years merely by collecting nazi coins. And I think that if American or British collectors are fascinated by them, that has different reasons. But the coins are not "evil" by themselves. Even here in Germany, where using nazi symbols is by and large illegal, you can of course collect coins from those times.

Interesting that you mention the silver "quality" - the nazi regime actually increased the silver content of the 2 and 5 RM coin. They were somewhat smaller than the Weimar pieces, but were Ag625 (2 RM) and even Ag900 (5 RM) instead of the earlier Ag500. Of course those were not made any more once Nazi Germany started the war ...

Christian

 

Destroying these coins would be counter-productive. Yes, you hate the Nazi regime, as all intelligent people do. Understandable. But to destroy all traces of the atrocites that happened is in itself a crime- for it wipes out the memories of the people who lost their life to prevent Hitler from taking over the world, as well as those who died at his hands for no good reason.

We are still at a time in history when people who suffered through this time are still alive, some people facing firsthand the horrors of what went on. So no one will forget what went on anytime in the near future.

But think of the farther future. Six or 700 years from now, there will be no one left alive who was alive during that time, paper may or may not last that long, and film will surely detiorate, if it survives.

But coins...those will survive, unless they are purposely destroyed. People in the future will find these, or see them in museams, and learn about what happened, and who was killed for no reason, and so on. The story of WWII must NEVER be forgotton, in part to prevent it from happening again, and in part to keep the memory alive of the thousands of people, both civilian and military, who lost their lives in the conflict.

The coins should be used an educational tool, or even just as a reminder of lost loved ones or lost anyone.

I have a collection of Nazi era German coins. They were brought back from the field of battle by family members who served in the war, and every time I see them, I cannot help but stop and think about my family members, who fought but luckily all survived, but also the people that didn't survive, and the horrors they must have seen and felt. Every time I see them, I stop and think, and it reminds me how lucky I really am, that I don't have to witness that, or be persecuted for what I believe in.

Poignant remarks above about the American Indian. My great-grandfather, x15 was king of an Indian tribe on Long Island, and was poisioned by Europeans in the 1600s.

Addressing the original poster, do you own any coins from the USA? England? France? Mexico? Spain? Italy? Japan? Russia? Argentina?

All have been aggresors in wars throughout the past 500 or so years. I have no doubt other countries have also started various wars but my primary area of historical interest (beyond my own family) is European history. It does not really matter if the aggressor was justified (Example: The USA's Revolutionary War) or not (Example: Nazi Germany) in your opinion (my opinions in parenthesis), they have all started wars that cost human lives.

 

Blah, blah, blah. Ripley

 

That is the attitude that explains Bill Maher's statistic. And to think, you could have just posted nothing at all.

 

I have a German page in my world coin collection. I have Silver Marks from 1901-1938. I have a German 5 Mark and 2 Mark with the Swaztika on it. I have held them often as I hold all my coins and think about them. when I hold these 3rd Reich Marks it makes me think of the pride and arrogance of a nation that attempted to take over eastern Europe. It makes me feel good to know that I live in a world where many Nations came together in a time of need and defeated this tide of arrogance. I am very happy to own and hold these coins, so that I may look upon them first hand and know what my grandfathers fought against and defeated!

 

If you dont likes em...dont collect them. I have nazi coins...simply because I collect world coins and a world coin collection isnt quite complete without them. I also have soviet russian coins, south african coins, european colonial coins, iraqi coins...like said before...they are just coins.

 

I know that the OP was only wanting to make a point about History and coins connected to it but these type of Threads due a great disservice to great folks like chrisild, Eduard, other members of German descent and the German people as a whole! I see articles, documentaries, movies, blogs and Threads where the German people as a whole are generally characterized as Nazis and this is wrong. Most of these same were written by folks who do not have even a small grasp of what went down (History-wise) with Hitler coming to power, the formation of the Nazi Party & continued recruitment into it, World War II and the extermination of Jews! That they don't even know or choose to ignore the facts of how a Mad Man which was not even German but actually Austrian who apparently had some Jewish Ancestory (which he hated fiercely for what reason, no one really knows), was able to take control of Germany and convince other Mad Men to follow his' cause. Germans as a whole are a very proud and honorable people and thousands upon thousands tried to stand up to Hitler and the Nazi Party but failed. Because of this, many thousands of good German folk were slaughtered or died while being imprisoned in Concentration Camps. My Ex-Wife's Grandfather was one of these. Eugene Georg Keller hid out on the roof tops of Lich, Germany for three days while the Nazi Party was in his little town (Stadt) of Lich for recruiting into the Nazi Party. Although he avoided becoming a member of the Nazi Party, he was still drafted into the German Army, sent to the Eastern Front where he was wounded, captured and imprisoned by the Russians and if it were not for an Allied Force stumbling upon the Prison camp where he and many others were incarcerated, would have been killed by the Russians. In fact, the Russian Squad that was ordered to exterminate the German prisoners in the Prison Camp, showed up not long after the Allied Force found the Camp and tried to convince them to leave but they would not. Even after many years, knowing what he went through and losing two sons during the War as well as another one murdered by an American GI, his' wife always treated with the greatest of respect and honor and would not let anyone treat me otherwise!

I would never dishonor the memory of those who perished due to the Holocaust and War but believe that mis-characterization of a people needs to stop! I hope that everyone understands my reasoning behind this post and if I have offended anyone...including the OP, then I am truly sorry! That was not my intention!


Frank

 

That is factual. It is widely believed that many north Indians are descendants of Aryan tribes that migrated there. Weather they displaced the Dravidians or not is a historical debate because there are historians who have different views.

Here in India, specifically in Hinduism, the swastika is very commonly used in Hindu art, architecture and decoration. Its very common to see the swastika symbol during festivals on the road, on the floor, on the wall and in all kinds of decorations. Swastika also a regular word used in ancient sanskrit meaning 'swa' = well, 'asti' = is commonly refering to good fortune, luck and well being.

Its a pity that Nazis choose the Swastika symbol. They chose it not becuase it brought good luck to them but because it was seen as a symbol of the supriority of the Aryan race that Hitler was so obsessed about. It hasnt stopped anybody in India to use it in all those years and blissfully seeing a swastika decorated outside my neighbor house doesnt remind me of fascists. It reminds me that a festival is around the corner.

Would I keep a Nazi coin? I probably would if I had one in my collection.

 

I like German coins mainly because of the Artistry and history. It seems to me Germans loved coins and medals and would mint up a coin or a medal for almost any reason. Look at the notgeld era...where every German and their dog was minting coins or printing notes...My conclusion is that Germans loved coins and they minted them in large quantities and many are pure works of numismatic artistry.

As for the Nazis...I get enough history on Nazi TV (History Channel) where everyday you can find some show delving into some aspect of the Nazis...Did Hitler have a corn on his toe? Did that drive him mad? Did he practice voodoo? blah blah blah...If you don't know all about Germany and the era of the Nazis...all you need do is watch the History channel for a week and you will know all you want to ever learn about it. Interesting that they don't have near as many shows about the allies...bad guys make better TV and if there was one thing you can say about Nazis, its that they were sharp dressers.

Makes me think of Little Britain...2 SS men in a trench, one turns to the other and asks 'are we the bad guys? I mean...we have a skull and cross bones on our hats? How many good guys wear skull and crossbones?'. The best bit was the skit about Karl Dönitz, Hitler's successor....if you haven't seen it...I am sure its out there on the web....the man who always wanted to be something more finally become Fuhrer just in time to give up. 'Sir, all we need you to do is surrender' Dönitz: 'can you just say Heil Dönitz? Just once? please?'

As stated before. Coins are not evil...if I did not collect a coin because the government was rotten....my collection would be non-existent....It would eliminate most middle eastern nations, soviet as well as white Russian, colonial era, US era when we were killing off the Indians, African coins, Chinese coins, Roman coins, Persian, etc...etc...They are just little metal chunks of history and I cant think of a single coin type I wouldn't put in my collection.

 

Goldstone: No one can really tell you that your feelings are in the wrong place. They are YOUR feelings. If you abhor nazism and the third reich (as well you should), as the vile actions they perpetrated are still fresh in society's memory, then by all means, do not collect their coins. You can even pretend they didn't exist at all. Now, this is about your feelings. Your reasoning, on the other hand, could hardly be more faulty. Some of the reasons for this have been very well put by some other people, and I will allow myself to lean onto their words:

This is an excellent and eloquent post that I totally subscribe.

What a great use of sarcasm (in my view of it)! Seriously, in 100, 200, years, will anyone feel as strongly towards WWII and the third reich as some people feel now? If your answer is yes, then you are definitely incapable of thinking outside of the zeitgeist you happened to be brought up on.

You really have to realize the importance of collecting these items as an effort to understand history - this is one small step in the direction of avoiding its repetition. Refusing to accept symbols and artifacts from a certain part of history is a small step in the opposite direction. That is but a small scale propaganda action - the same kind of history rewriting that fascist and communist regimes love to do.

Your list's most salient feature is that it's extremely short, which reinforces your point.

 

I'm with the OP. I recognize the tough fact of collecting it to maintain history, but for me this is very visceral history! I'd melt the stuff. . .

 

Yes, as you stated the same could be said for ancient roman and other coins also. Some of the ancient civilizations did brutal things also. When it comes down to it its just a coin.

 

Well for starts its not just that countrys history its the worlds history and the fact of it maybe coming from a jew is a childish thought. Having a few myself i think that they are very intersecting and that they are a great piece to have in any collection. I'am not saying that i support the NAZIS or anything like that but it is people with our thoughts that just makes me feel frustered.

 

I don't know. The whole Nazi stuff just makes me irrationally angry. I have a hard time reading about it; angry at what they did to their victims, to Europe, to themselves. I suppose this is because this kind of stuff ain't supposed to happen in our modern, enlightened times!

 

My 2 cents

Why then only limit your aversion to only German 3rd reich coins, other governments have also presided over atrocities. Do you have any Turkish coins from the WW1 era, a lot of Armenians were slaughtered by them, Japanese coins from WW2 era?, Ever hear of the "rape of Nanking" among many other atrocities?. Russian Coins from the Lenin/Stalin era, those boys did their fair share of mass murder. And I am sure there are many others.
Nobody condones any of these acts, But if we start eliminating one from our collecting how could you justify then collecting the others?

 

I personally collect third reich items. Helmets, uniforms, daggers, swords, guns, and so on. I am in no way sympathetic towards anything that these items represented in their time or what the ideology has become today. For me it is an interesting part of history. It was a horrific time in the history of the world, but so was the roman empire where christians were fed to the lions. And I know tons of people who collect roman pieces with no quams. These events are still fresh in our memories tho they happened 60 years ago. People who experienced it are still alive to tell their stories. Tho there are fewer and fewer every day. I was a history major in college. There are communities just like this one with thousands of members that are solely dedicated strictly to German WWII items.

 

Every regime that ever existed has blood on its hands. Its only a question of "How much." Traci

 

Hmm, but that does not really explain why items from Nazi Germany are so much more popular in the US than, for example, Soviet Union memorabilia, and does not explain all those stereotypes in British media when it comes to today's Germany. Maybe it's primarily a question of who one was at war with? Heck, the nazi coins are not even particularly attractive in my opinion. That Fraktur font alone ...

Christian