The Official U.S. Coin Hoard Thread

Wells Fargo Hoard ?: The hoard was 19,900 coins...but I've seen posts ATS referencing that ONLY about 9,000 were graded. The totals I've seen for MS-65 and up add up to about that figure, too.

IOTW....about 1/2 the hoard was worthy of being graded because coins below MS-63 trade as bullion. And 1/2 of the hoard never saw PCGS graders.

My understanding was that the ENTIRE hoard was of pristine quality...not just the half that was worthy of being graded. But now I'm not sure.

Anybody able to shed light on this ?

 

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Saint-Gaudens Hoards By Date: Wow, I forgot to finish the series. Let's move on past WW I with the next batch of hoards....

1920-S: Doubtful if any single date bags of uncirculated 1920-S double eagles were ever sent overseas since no large quantity or even small groups of uncirculated 1920-S Saints were ever returned to the U.S.; only the occasional circulated or minimal uncirculated specimen. Paul Wittlin, the European buyer for James Kelly and later Paramount, searched more than 20 years for rare and scarce date U S gold coins in Paris and Swiss banks. He managed to find only the occasional single AU or uncirculated 1920-S double eagle never any quantities of uncirculated pieces and not a single one that was really nice like MS63 or better.

New research by Roger Burdette into the origin of surviving coins suggests that less than 200 pieces believed known today likely came from two sources: a production residual of 144 coins that the San Francisco Mint Cashier paid out shortly after production, and from a group of 543 pieces that was shipped to Philadelphia for the Annual Assay Commission and was later, at least in part, paid out by the Philadelphia Mint Cashier. There is little evidence to suggest that any significant quantities of the 1920-S double eagle were ever distributed through other channels. Only a few specimens of the 1920-S have turned up in European holdings over the years.

1921: 3 or 4 best in U.S. hands in 1940’s. 2nd rarest Saint behind 1927-D and 1st in condition rarity. Lower MS and circulated coins only came back from European hoards and only a few per bag.

1922: End of 1921 Depression led to boom in exports and many Saints sent overseas to Europe, S/C America…mostly MS60-64’s. Tens of thousands of coins came back.

1922-S: Steady stream from 1950’s through 1970’s from Europe. From super-rare to scarce. Large number in 1983 MTB Hoard. The 1922-S began to appear in quantity in European banks in the 1950’s and 1960’s, and the date was well represented in the 1983 MTB Hoard. Today, the 1922-S can be found in lower Mint State grades with little difficulty; high-grade examples remain quite rare.

1923: The 1923 Philadelphia-issue $20, like its 1922-P counterpart, was spared the mass meltings of the 1930s. This was likely because many were among large quantities of coins shipped to Germany under the Dawes Plan and which then transferred from bank-to-bank. However, among Philadelphia Mint $20s, the 1923 double eagle is the scarcest in the 1922 through 1928 range.

A typical 1923 grades MS62, which is in line with the condition of many European hoard coins. Better preserved examples are difficult to locate and anything MS65 or finer is a rarity and will attract considerable attention at auction.

1923-D: Most pieces seem to have been preserved in foreign holdings, most likely in Argentina or Brazil where it was common practice to leave U.S. gold untouched in its original bags. A small hoard of 1,000 pieces, alleged to have been owned by Virgil Brand, came to light in 1981-1982 but other groups seem to have been much more modest in size.

 

Not necessarily. Sometimes it's just what it appears to be. There's not always a "glamourous" story behind a spectacular find.

Bruce

 

You are right, of course.

I just found it odd that they were never noticed before. Of course, it's also possible they were buried close tot he surface and after years/decades of erosion they became "visible" to anybody walking nearby.

 

That's seems very possible and there just isn't anything further to know about the hoard...dang it!

Bruce

 

Saint-Gaudens Hoards By Date: We'll hit the 1924's and 1925's today. Nothing on the 1925, I'll re-hit sources because it's strange to have them for the other mints but not Philly.

1924: This issue's availability stems mainly from repatriated trade coins from Europe and South America. In 1924, about 2.5 million double eagles -- presumably mostly from current coinage -- were shipped to the New York Assay Office and the Federal Reserve Banks for use in international payments. Extensive research by Roger Burdette in this area documents heavy gold exports in 1924, and 1.8 million double eagles were shipped out quickly upon delivery to the distributors at the Federal Reserve Banks and the Assay Office.

1924-D: Extremely rare prior to 1950’s, but several small hoards changed the scarcity rankings. Since then a number of small hoards of the 1924-D were uncovered in Europe in the 1950s, 1960s and even the 1970s.

1924-S: In the past 60 years, the 1924-S has dropped a very long way from once being considered not only the rarest issue of the Saint-Gaudens series, but also the rarest of the entire denomination, surpassing the 1856-O, 1870-CC and the famous proof-only rarities of the 1880s. It was also considered more rare than the 1907 MCMVII Extremely High Relief, the 1927-D and the 1933, all of which are multi-million dollar coins today. The prevailing opinion as late as 1950 was that only three or four specimens of this date were known and, when one sold, it invariably brought an extraordinary price. The C. David Pierce specimen in the 1947 Buffalo ANA sale, a superb gem and the finest known to this day (Simpson-Stellar-Price- "Mr. Lima, Ohio" collections), sold for a remarkable $2,200, a price realized by only a few coins during that era. (For example, John Jay Pittman bought his nearly perfect 1792 Half Dime one year later for only $100 and thought he paid too much.) A four figure price paid for a coin was anything but commonplace then.

The reputation of the 1924-S as a rarity was rather short-lived, however, because beginning in the early 1950s and continuing over the next several decades, significant quantities of the 1924-S, and other formerly rare dates such as the 1922-S, 1924-D, 1925-D, 1925-S, 1926-D, 1926-S and 1929, in particular, were found overseas in French and Swiss banks. These coins were returned to the United States as they were acquired by U.S. dealers and their buyers and quickly found their way into the numismatic marketplace and eventually the hands of collectors. By 1956 uncirculated examples of the 1924-S had already dropped into the $300-$350 range and prices continued their decline further over the next 10-15 years. Not many specimens of any of these issues that were found in European hoards were particularly high quality (many great examples of the 1922-S were found later in the Central American hoard, however); generally AU55 to MS62 was typical

A small quantity was discovered in the late-1950’s, and then 100+ were found in the mid-1960’s, probably by Paul Wittlin.

1925-D: Mini-hoards in 1950’s, larger European ones in 1960’s. Merkers Mine Hoard may be responsible for all coins. Most newly minted 1925-D double eagles were sent to Europe, and remained stored in banks, primarily in Switzerland and France.

Analysis of auction and authentication records leads to the conclusion that nearly all known 1925-D double eagles came from European sources, possibly the Merkers Mine hoard. The few genuinely circulated coins are probably from the two cashier’s holdings as the result to payments for gold deposits. A small number of pieces – those now among the very best available – could have been secured direct from the Denver or Philadelphia Mint cashiers. Collectors and dealers of the time, especially those in the Philadelphia area, were known to frequent the mint looking for pieces for their collections. We also have indications that by 1924 or earlier, the Treasurer of the United States was securing new coins for “special purposes” including sale to collectors by mail and in person at the Treasury Cash Room in Washington, DC. The Denver Mint cashier’s statement indicated one 1925-D double eagle was paid out on March 16; possibly for Mr. Morgan’s collection. We also know that compartment #19 in the gold vault contained $30,750,000 in double eagles – probably of 1925 manufacture – that it had been sealed from July 3, 1925 to at least July 1, 1933.

1925-S: 1950’s mini-hoards. "... the 1925-S is one of the major rarities in the series and has long been regarded as such. Even back in the 1940's it was considered a rarity, not as much so as the 1924-S, 1926-S, and 1926-D, but more or less on par with the 1924-D, 1931 and 1932. I do not recall ever seeing or hearing of any hoards of this issue, not even from the 1950's or 1960's when quantities of many of the Saint-Gaudens issues previously thought to be rare were discovered in European banks."

In the 1940s, the 1924-S and 1926-D were perceived as the ultimate rarities of the Saint-Gaudens series, and when those dates became more available due to European finds, the previously unappreciated 1927-D was waiting to assume the mantle.

Since virtually all of the specimens later found in Europe were typically in the grades from AU50 to MS62, the 1925-S is still rare today in MS63 and very rare in MS64.

 

Wells Fargo Hoard, Initial Selling Prices: Found an old article that mentioned that the MS-65's sold for about $1,200....the 66's for $3,000 and the 67's for $10,000. That was with gold trading $280-$380 from 1996-2001. The premiums were HUGE.

Ironically, buying the better coin didn't work out this time as more and more 67's hit the market and the premium collapsed even as gold went up 6-fold since. 65 owners have doubled their $$$.....66's are about even. But the 67's are down 30-40% !

Interesting to see how it played out over many decades and with gold rising 6-fold over that period of time.

The buyers paid Gillio about $750 on average for the coins, just over $15 MM. Gold was about $375 or so at the time of the 1996 sale, therefore, about a 100% premium.

 

Let's hit 1926 and 1927.....

1926: Last of the big exports of gold coins went overseas as part of Dawes Plan to support Weimar Germany. The 1926 Saints are another mintage that escaped the 1937 Treasury melting because they were overseas.

Overall analysis of authentication and auction records indicate that surviving 1926 double eagles came from South American and European central banks in almost equal quantities. This is not especially unusual given the direct U.S.–South American trade, and indirect Europe–South American trade of the 1920s. Of the latter, purchases of grain from Argentina by Germany (and Britain to a lesser extent) may have transferred new U.S. coins to stable vaults in the Americas.

The last of large American loans went to Germany in 1926. This totaled $45 million in gold coins and was the only large shipment of coins to Europe for the year. Over three years $111,391,000 in coins, almost entirely Double Eagles, was sent to support the Deutsches Reich (Weimar Republic). The money loaned to Germany helped only a little and additional loans were negotiated so that interest on the first loans could be paid. Germany used U.S. gold to buy food and limited quantities of industrial materials throughout Europe, and rebuild its manufacturing infrastructure. These types of purchases fueled multiple European interbank transfers that created many of the “bank-circulated” double eagles seen in European hoards.

1926-D: European mini-hoards reduced rarity but not at MS-66 level (2). A few came out of Swiss banks after WWII, but not enough to supply an ever-burgeoning demand. Prior to the discovery of the small hoards in Europe, the 1926-D was considered to be one of the three greatest rarities in the series, second only to the 1924-S and slightly more rare than the 1926-S. It was also thought to be more rare than the 1920-S, 1921, and 1927-D, the three most valuable regular issues of the series today.

The Green specimen realized $2,500 in 1949, the second highest price in that sale behind a proof 1858 eagle that realized $4,250.

David Akers recounts in the Heritage Duckor collection catalog that somewhat later, an Ohio collector “paid only $500 for what is now one of the finest 1926-D’s, indicating he probably purchased it in the early 1950s after the value of a 1926-D had dropped dramatically due to the initial discovery of some small hoards of the issue in Europe.”

1926-S: 1950’s mini-hoards. Scarcity drops. Like many dates from the 1920s, the 1926-S began to turn up in European holdings in the 1950s, and its rarity as a date has declined over the years.

1927: "....An examination of pre-1960 auction listings is instructive; the earliest auction record in the David Akers United States Gold Coins reference, the 1941 Dunham Collection sold by B. Max Mehl, is listed in the catalog as "very scarce," and Stack's used an identical phrase to describe the issue in 1944 for the J.F. Bell auction catalog. The impact of 1960s repatriation is especially noticeable in the auction records compiled by Akers: the trickle of auction appearances in the 1940's and 1950s, fewer than one a year for each decade, turns into a steady stream through the 1960s and then a torrent in the 1970s."

1927-D: Not a single 1927-D ever turned up in any overseas hoards. It appears that most of the surviving 1927-D double eagles ultimately derive from collectors who obtained them directly from the Denver Mint or the Treasurer’s office in Washington. In the 1940s, the 1924-S and 1926-D were perceived as the ultimate rarities of the Saint-Gaudens series, and when those dates became more available due to European finds, the previously unappreciated 1927-D was waiting to assume the mantle.

1927-S: Only a small number of examples surfaced in European holdings in the 1950s. David Akers, a principal of the Paramount International Coin Company, was privy to many records of transactions between Jim Kelly and Paul Wittlin, who was the main conduit for bringing European holdings to the U.S. coin market. In Price List 8 (Paramount,1974), Akers made the following observations about the 1927-S:

"This is the first example of this rare date that we have owned in several years and even when we were regularly receiving shipments of rare double eagles from our European buyer Paul Wittlin, the 1927-S was conspicuous by its absence although in such shipments we received as many as six 1921's at one time or two 1870-CC's, or half a dozen 1891's! Of course, the days of such shipments are far behind us and will never be repeated again, but the fact remains that even in those bountiful days the 1927-S was seldom sent to us and this is a strong indicator of the coin's rarity."

In the 1950s one or two pieces at a time of the 1927-S began to show up in European gold holdings. But, unlike the 1922-S and 1926-S, it never appeared in quantity, and its rarity status has remained constant through the years.

There were enough returned from Europe, however, to greatly alter the overall population rarity of the 1927-S. Now, instead of only 10-12 known, there are more like 150-200, meaning the 1927-S is considered moderately rare today rather than the great rarity it once was thought to be.

 

Let's hit 1928 and 1929 to finish off the 1920's. 1929 also brings us the 1st of the Fab Five.

1928: Roughly half of the 1928 mintage was released to Federal Reserve Banks for commercial distribution in the year of production. But, approximately $50,000,000 was shipped from the mint in small quantities and much of it likely ended up in private hoards in Europe, South America and Canada. Foreign hoarding and low domestic interest rates combined to increase overseas demand for U.S. gold coins. But 1928 would be the last year until 1932 of substantial export of gold coins.

The 1928 Saint was the most popular Saint in the 1950’s…plentiful…1924’s came later so the 1928 escaped grading and certification to an extent.

The great equalizer (or perhaps great randomizer) is the pattern of international commerce that sent millions of gold coins overseas and out of the reach of the Roosevelt Administration's gold recall. The pattern was centered on the Northeast and the great commercial nexus of New York City, and double eagles from the nearby Philadelphia Mint were far more likely to survive in European storage (the greatest source of repatriation) than were coins from mountainous Denver or Pacific-facing San Francisco. Time, too, has its role: The 1927 double eagle saw widespread overseas use, but the 1928 twenty had less opportunity for a commercial jaunt before the debilitating Great Depression of 1929. The 1928 is the last issue to be available in type quantities, and any later-dated coin is a melt rarity commanding a five-figure price.

1929: 80 coins found in 1980’s, another 10 in 1990’s. 1984 “English Hoard” was fake from Fenton to Gillio to Breen. Numerous hoards of 1929’s have been uncovered in Europe since the 1950s while very few examples, if any, of the 1931 were ever found from similar sources.

This is no doubt due to the significant number of specimens returned from Europe over the years; many more examples of the 1929 were found there than of the other four later dates. However, back in the 1940s, when dealers were really just starting to get a handle on the relative rarity of the various Saint-Gaudens issues (they knew mintage figures were of no use in that regard), the 1929 was thought to be much less rare than the 1931-D and 1930-S but otherwise comparable to both the 1931 and 1932. Today, estimates vary wildly as to how many 1929 double eagles exist. PCGS estimates the population at over 900 pieces and Dave Bowers states in his double eagle book that 1,250 to 1,750 exist. Those numbers seem awfully high to me (Akers) and I would place the number more in the 300-400 range.

1929 saw continued contraction in gold coin exports and a surge in loan repayments from South America. Total gold coin exports sank from $143,190,361 in 1928 to just $7,145,103 in 1929.

 

Very nice date by date write up on the $20 DE, I don't collect them but I enjoyed reading about them.
Thanks for your time in the write ups.