The Official U.S. Coin Hoard Thread

Plenty of threads on ancient/foreign hoards, wanted to create one for U.S. coins. For domestic or imported hoards.

I saw this quote from a dealer a few years ago and wanted to know if those of you who are dealers or close to dealers believe it is still true:

"...But I think there are still very large quantities of these coins that have not been sent in to PCGS and NGC. I know for a fact that there are at least six or seven American firms who import large amounts of United States gold coins from European and other overseas sources every month. While supplies from Europe ebb and flow, the quantities coming over every year are still immense; in the tens of thousands at the very least."

I never heard of any firms who are (were?) ACTIVELY importing remaining gold coins from Europe/overseas a few years ago. I know there was lots of coins to be brought over in the 1950's and 1960's but figured we got all the low-hanging fruit by 1990 or so.

Tens of thousands every year is pretty substantial IF it is still happening. Even if mostly generic commons and spread over multiple years.

 

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I think the first part of what he said is 100% true. When I am asked to appraise coin collections, sometimes people have very valuable collections of ungraded coins in uncirculated condition. $20 gold pieces, some CC Morgan dollars, desirable high grade coins that have been out of circulation for decades... Most of these are from collectors who have died and their kids inherit the collection with no idea of what its worth. I always tell people to buy a 2020 US coins blue book before they start to sell.

I am sure that coin shops get people bringing in collections like that daily, whether they give them a fair price or not. What is even more crazy are those giant coin collections that are so big, dealers need to travel to someone's house to buy them.

 

So these sets (often with ungraded coins) you come into....they're mostly via an estate or the kids who inherit from someone who was active decades ago and has died, right ?

There can't be that many coin collections worth tens of millions of dollars, can there ? Millions maybe. For 8 or 9-figure collections, they must rarely get sold based on the mortality tables or someone deciding to liquidate their entire collection or most of it.

 

Yeah, most of the collections I come across are just a lot of constitutional silver. For example, a grandpa who would just take silver out of circulation when he came across it. Then their kid inherits it and they would rather have cash than a bunch of old coins.

I don't think there are that many collections like this but I am sure there are some collections the size of an entire room, some collections even the size of a house. I've never seen one but I know they exist. It would be amazing to look through a collection like that lol.

 

I didn't become the type of collector I am based on house size, but I do live in a condo and I have alot less room to display and store than my friends with houses.

Some of my friends who collect have small bedrooms that have been converted into their dens or studies which also house their coin collection and multiple display cases and curios.

 

How about asking who here has any form of hoard?

 

You mean coins from a hoard that was put on the label ?

 

Here's my problem with hoards that get the recognition:

• They're oversold, as in a family's recent find of family-owned coins really doesn't have a sexy story. The New York Bank hoard -- it was found once the owner died and the estate needed to be settled -- is one such oversold hoard IMO: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...0.l1313&_nkw=new+york+bank+hoard&_sacat=11116
• They're misnamed, like the Wells Fargo Saints. Those coins are a legit hoard but they should NOT (IMO) have had the name of the bank that they were placed in AFTER being found. We should have been told the ORIGINAL SOURCE of the coins (I believe Gillio is keeping that secret). Heck, if he had stored the coins after they were found at Yankee Stadium they'd be the Yankee Stadium Hoard -- even though they weren't found there.
• They're pricey, like the Redfield Hoard. At least that hoard isn't misnamed and isn't a fake hoard masquerading as one.

So many of the original, REAL hoards of the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's just got dumped into our market without anybody caring about the coins' origins. There may be a book or two on them that I saw in footnotes, I'll have to check.

 

I believe @Fred Weinberg used to travel overseas for a large firm to buy coins from banks and others, to be brought back to the US, so maybe he can shed some light on this.

 

Found this on some famous hoards:

https://www.littletoncoin.com/shop/Famous-Hoards

 

Thanks for posting, fun read.

 

Does anybody know anything about a Hoax Hoard that involved 1,000 Saint-Gaudens coins allegedly found in the U.K. ?

It was attributed to Walter Breen and I think I first came across it on the Heritage site but I can't recall. I've been catching up on coin reading the last few weeks and I can't remember where I read it.

Anybody heard about the Hoard Hoax or lived through it, please post. I think it was in the 1980's or 1990's but don't quote me.

 

Interesting thoughts on the 1908 No Motto Wells Fargo Hoard from David Lawrence:

"The 1908 No Motto double eagle is one of the most common issues of the Saint Gaudens series. Prior to the 1990s, they were one of the lowest value coins in the set. Dealers’ sight-unseen bids would specifically exclude the 1908 No Motto. This was not only due to their wide availability, but also their quality; most had low eye appeal and weren’t appealing to customers.

The entire landscape of the issue changed in the 1990s. Unbeknownst to numismatists, a massive hoard of 19,900 1908 No Motto double eagles had been traded as part of an international payment in 1917. They escaped the Gold Surrender of 1933 and remained untouched until the 1960s. At that point the original Mint bags had deteriorated, so they were put into new bags, sealed, and left alone yet again. In 1996, dealer Ron Gillio had the opportunity to purchase the hoard and was astounded by the quality of the pieces. The coins were stored briefly in a Wells Fargo bank in Las Vegas after being purchased by Gillio, then sent for grading in 1997. As a result of this brief stay, they have been dubbed the Wells Fargo hoard.

While some have certainly found their way into NGC holders, the entire group was originally graded by PCGS. However, these were no ordinary pieces; in contrast to the typical unattractive pieces, these were incredibly high quality.

Out of almost 10,000 uncirculated pieces, thousands graded MS66. There are currently approximately 9,000 coins graded MS66 by PCGS, so a decent percentage of these came from the Wells Fargo hoard. Almost 1,000 pieces graded MS67, which make up most, if not all, of the 896 pieces of the grade at PCGS.

However, these weren’t the highlight of the hoard. One hundred and one pieces graded MS68, of which there are currently 102 graded – only one found outside the hoard. The stars of the find were ten pieces which graded MS69. No other Saint Gaudens double eagles of any date had been found in MS69, making them truly shocking finds.

According to David Hall, graders of the time at PCGS pulled out the top three and “tried real hard to find one… that we could call MS70.” They narrowed it down to three, and while none of them made the cut, one was deemed the best. The label reads, “Wells Fargo–The Best One!”

This particular piece became part of the Phillip H. Morse Collection of Saint-Gaudens Coinage which is memorialized in the book The Coinage of Augustus Saint-Gaudens: as Illustrated by the Phillip H. Morse Collection, published in 2006. A year earlier, in 2005, the collection was auctioned. This “best” piece realized $94,875, which was the auction record for over a decade. Only four others have been offered at public auction, three of which sold for less than the Morse specimen.

The current record holder is the Fox specimen which sold in January of 2020 for $96,000 at Heritage’s FUN sale. It was part of the Rollo Fox Collection of $20 Saint-Gaudens Gold which included other record-setting pieces as well, including a 1927 D double eagle in MS65+ that sold for $2.16 million.

Only time will tell when the other five MS69s will come to the market, or how much they will bring when they do. Regardless, any MS69 is highly prized in a registry set and a sure sign of a truly remarkable collection.

With the first MS69 Saint Gaudens double eagles ever found, the Wells Fargo hoard forever changed the landscape of the series. Even more so, the 1908 No Motto went from an unattractive and undesirable date to including some of the finest examples ever seen."

 

Fake 1929 Saint Hoard: I read somewhere about a "fake hoard" of Saint-Gaudens DEs but couldn't remember where, which year, or the details. Other than that, I had perfect recollection.

Found this while doing some auction research in the HA archives:

"Clarification of a false rumor of a hoard was first published in Stack's Eldorado Sale (5/2009). That correction bears repeating, as the story has made its way into the numismatic media on several occasions as truth.

One false rumor was seized upon by the numismatic press through the prolific writings of Walter Breen. Back in 1984 noted English dealer Steve Fenton sold a 1929 double eagle to Ron Gillio. Steve then played a little joke on Ron by telling him he had found a small hoard of 40 1929 double eagles and was unloading them as quickly as possible. Ron told this to Walter Breen and the English Hoard of 40 pieces was born."

 

Seems like there's a huge number of hoards that would qualify here. The bank of NY fugio cent hoard, Saddle Ridge hoard, shipwrecks, GSA dollars...

 

Never heard of the Fugio Cents, interesting story.

Still surprised that Saddle Ridge Hoard has such few details. Maybe after the owners/founders pass on will some details come out. Still hard to believe that coins were found basically uncovered on a property.

GSA Hoard....any 69's found from that batch ?

 

You've never heard of this hoard? Quoting from the Red Book: "Circa 1856, a keg containing several thousand 1787 Fugio copper coins was found at the Bank of New York at 44 Wall Street. Each was in Mint State, most with brown toning. For many years these were given out as souvenirs and keepsakes to clients. By 1948, when numismatist Damon G. Douglas examined them, there were 1,641 remaining. Today, many remain at the bank and are appreciated for their history and value."

 

I looked it up after he wrote the post, so now I know. Plus your little post, too.

But no, before a few hours ago, had never heard of it.

 

What more details do you need? They were walking their property and saw a can poking out of the ground. Then they found more. It seems as simple as that.

 

A can of super-valuable coins "sticking out of the ground" ?

Never before seen ?

You don't find that a bit curious ?