The Official Morgan Silver Dollar Thread

Thought a thread dedicated to discussing pricing trends and developments in the MSDs would be helpful. Feel free to attach pics if relevant, though there's a separate thread for that.

I never thought I would collect this coin but things have been tougher financially the last few years and I was still going to shows. Couldn't afford any Saints but purchased a few MSDs over the last 2 years:

• An 1879-S MS-67 CAC
• An 1884-CC MS-66 CAC
• An 1898 MS64 PL

These really are nice coins to collect, I can see the attraction. But I know from friends who collected much longer than I that many got burned during the Coin Bubble when MSDs were among the most inflated coins.

Given the steeper premiums to silver bullion relative to Saints and other gold coins to gold bullion, does anybody have any thoughts on what might happen to the prices/premiums if silver gets back to say $30/oz. ?

 

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That's the thing about Morgan's, when the price of silver goes up, Morgan's piggy back right along w them and go up too. But when the price of silver goes down, they normally stay the same price for many months b4 any price adjustments are made. That's why, these coins right now appear to be undervalued in some grades and there are plenty of sleeper dates to choose from. Not to mention they are big, beautiful,popular, and considered the backbone of numismatics !!
In summary, the arrow is pointing up ^^^

 

I'd like to hear what long time Morgan collectors think of PCGS and NGC. They should be pretty good by now at grading Morgans. If I remember right Morgans were all that PCGS would grade in the very beginning.

 

It depends on specialties when collecting Morgans. Remember, that certain common dates in low grade MS condition (under gem grade) are as common as modern coins. The 1882-1884cc and the 1878cc are really common date, as they have extremely high survival, courtesy of the GSA horde.

I would say that the key dates have always been expensive, and specialty Morgans, such as uncommon VAMs and PL coins are getting harder and harder to find in over MS 64 condition. PL and DMPL coins are their own market, as the numbers that actually have survived are comparatively low. Certain PL and DMPL dates are positively rare, and in general, highly desired in all dates and grades for their moderate to extreme cameo.

Toned Morgans are extremely popular to many buyers. I was one of them, and for years, collected toners. Recently, I have shifted back to white blazing high grade coins, but toning is a highly specialized market--people can pay "moon money" if they happen to like the coloring. Alleged "Monster Rainbow" Morgans can bring 2-10 times Greysheet value, depending on the intensity of the tone. So, it is a vast and diverse market. While Silver prices are weak, I find that Morgans do NOT drop insanely in value. Right now, nice coins are still commanding good values---the extremely common dates are exactly that, and are not going to command big money no matter what the market is.

 

This isn't always true. The common dates in AU and below and lower MS grades tend to change very little. The MS65-67 coins are the ones most affected. Even DMPL's have very little movement unless they are the higher grades. I found this true by following the CDN Greysheet for about 10 years.

Chris

 

I prefer NGC because I've familiarized myself with their grading tendencies. It's not easy to alternate between NGC & PCGS when even the slightest nuance in the "grading style" can affect the outcome.

Chris

 

Prices are 'sticky' to the downside for all coins so that is not surprising.

I wonder what % of all collectors do MSDs ? Anybody ever seen any surveys or polls ?

 

That's one reason I went for a high-grade (Ms-67/66) plus CAC with 2 of my purchasers. If the coin is very common, at least I added some value. Still much less expensive than a Saint so it was affordable.

Any reason so many MSDs have the PL and/or DMPL look ? Is that a function of silver's appearance ? The minting process back then wasn't anywhere near as good as today's, not even close to the Saint years (1907-33).

Interesting....never had an interest in toned coins, it's funny because spots on Saints or other coins is a no-no for many and yet here you have the entire coin turning and it's more desirable.

Some of those MSDs almost have a "powdery" look and feel to them as I understand it. Is that just silver flakes and powder ?

 

Very interesting, since most collectors have a slight bias towards PCGS. And I'm surprised you can see any nuance between them since for most it's just a preference because they BELIEVE the PCGS slab will command a higher price, all-else-equal.

 

For me, a higher price is an afterthought. I'm more concerned about accurate grading. Where Morgans are concerned, I think NGC does a better job of grading them accurately, and that includes the differentiation between PL & DMPL.

Keep in mind that some of the DMPL's were created from fresh dies while others were created from re-polished dies. Both can be attributed as DMPL's, but there is a distinguishable difference between the two.

Chris

 

You see coins with DMPL that shouldn't have it or coins with PL that should be DMPL ?

Is it true they tell that by seeing how far away they can read text in the fields ?

Thanks Chris, interesting....no way a DMPL can come from a re-polished die, has to be from a new one ?

 

In my opinion, PCGS is a little looser than NGC when it comes to DMPL's, but not by much. 6"-8" is the norm for DMPL depending on the company. If 7" were to be an average, then I think PCGS is just below 7" and NGC is just above 7".

I'd also like to correct myself on an earlier comment.

I shouldn't have included "PL" in this comment since the characteristics between the two attributes are substantially different. A "PL" characteristic makes no reference to reflectivity.

Regarding re-polished dies, you can find a lot of DMPL's in, both, NGC & PCGS slabs. If you look at the reverse, you might note a slight haze between the eagle's neck and wings or between the arrows and wings. This haze is the product of re-polishing.

Chris

 

I have to disagree, Chris - PL is wholly a lesser degree of reflectivity than DMPL, and that is the only difference between them. I use 4" and 8" as minimums for the perfect reflection of 12pt newspaper type as my definition of the two.

GoldFinger, there's no real difference in the polishing processes between a new die and one being restored, which is why either can be reasonably expected to produce DMPLs.

 

I can definitely see more of the outside forest with my PL MSD than the other 2 coins.

 

Any recommendations for a Morgan DMPL common ?

Also, how long on the mint scale do you see DMPL Morgans ? MS-63 ? I trust you wouldn't see them in AU ?

 

I've never seen a slabbed AU dmpl, but I'm sure there is one out there somewhere. Nobody would want these because all of the distortion in the fields,this, making it sort of pointless. Personally, I don't buy dmpls under ms64 due to eye appeal.
I would recommend a frosty P or O mint dmpl, due to the S mints(early ones especially) being so common. I like the 86 87 88 & 96 97 98 p mints in dmpl. Who knows, maybe you could get lucky and find an old holdered proof coin that was inadvertently attributed as a dmpl by mistake

 

I love the DPL Morgans. I have found a couple in old NGC no-line fatties that have similar toning. I find them very attractive. I don't know if the holder caused this purplish toning, but all I know is that I have couple with this toning. The first is not a DPL, but has similar toning.



NGC DPL:







One of my fav DPL's. The luster breaks on the cheek are a bummer, but tough to find CC DPL's. I have a few in GSA holders too.

 

I have a couple of MS66's and 67's with/without CAC...but the PL or DMPL designation can double or triple the cost in that grade.

 

I went to a NJ LCS today....I saw an 1882-CC MS64 DMPL...$750. Seemed high to me, plus I think there was sales tax.

Also saw an 1884-CC MS65 DMPL for $1,500 but this was out of my price range. Not sure if this is overpriced, have to check.

I guess the 1 grade increase plus the relative scarcity of 1884 Carsons vs. 1881's accounts for the huge jump, huh ?

 

Here is my latest