the odd contradiction in cleaned coin values - a newbie perspective

Hi all
As a new coin collector I have been shocked by the values of cleaned coins - and it makes me wonder -

A coin is cleaned - therefore disturbing surfaces - and I wonder why coins in such state arent downgraded and straight graded based on surface condition like other coins - and the value of such cleaned coins equated as such. IE: Why is a cleaned coin with AU details worth far less than an original surface coin of VF grade?

I have seen this in other areas of my collecting - such as vintage toys and comics and it doesnt make sense to me -

Lets compare to comic books. In the 70s and 80s a comic book was common to have
color touch ups - where a comic would have color breaking creases touched up with a colored pen - not maliciously but to make it more visually pleasing - and since then the grading company has been created - and now you have that book graded and it comes back as "amateur restoration" and the value is cut by over 50% or more - So people do "restoration removal" where a conservator basically scrapes away the damage, causing more damage - but so the comic straight grades at a lower than visual "restored" grade but with more damage that with the prior "amateur restoration" grade - but sells for much more.

The same for packaged vintage toys - where a price sticker removal causes damage to the packaging and 30 years ago - coloring in the damage was acceptable - but now it is "tampering" - so people are willing to further damage a toy by removing the color touch ups than just selling it as is, and " restored"

I see this with coin chat - where people have an AU details coin, but say they can wear it down to a straight VF grade by leaving it in their pocket, etc - hereby damaging the coin FURTHER - but financially gaining more because a VF sells for much more than a cleaned AU.

I feel like cleaned coins - depending on the extend of cleaning and disruption of surfaces should be graded based on the quality of surface, period. It makes no sense to me personally why an AU detailed level of coin, that was polished once or twice is worth less than a VF of the same coin, which may have not been polished, but has been substantially more worn. A surface is a surface wether the damage was done yesterday or 100 years ago, I think - And I know I am in the minority but I cant wrap my head around this price disparage in a logical way.

Sorry for this silly rant but I just dont get it .

 

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People want original. Cleaning it changes the surfaces in unnatural way.

 

That is true sometimes, there are many instances where the opposite is true. It all depends on what specific coin you are talking about.

They are generally. Surfaces are part of grading. Old cleanings, cleaning ect at some point makes a coin a details grade.

Also remember just because someone types it does not mean it is true. There is a lot of grading misinformation or people not understanding how pictures depict things on forums

 

Even if it looks like it just got ran over by a train, people want
The genuine article unaltered in every way !

 

You mentioned a polished coin. Are you aware that this is one of the worst things you could do to a coin? I wouldn’t want a polished coin in my collection, no matter how nice and shiny it looked

 

Polishing is a bad idea for coins they may look better, but your
actually destroying the value, on the other hand i collect and
Invest in 10 OZ Silver Bars and always keep them polished
and pretty

 

I like the top one better...LOL

 

Silver bar bugs are the last people you want to listen to when it comes to how to treat coins or even silver.

 

That is market grading. It is evil and should not be done. It only serves to confuse the people who know how to grade and coddle those who don’t.

In most cases, it is not done with cleaned coins, but I have seen it happen several times.

 

Is this a rant that you can't get a "better" coin for less money?

"grading" exists in many hobbies from Car Shows, Comic Books, Coins, etc.
On the opposite end of the spectrum you have your customizers who take "original" things, add their labor rate to destroy original situations and make you pay for it. This skews "value" until resale when that labor rate is all loss.

If you have a Red Book read the grading section to get better information on it.

You can get a (a) high quality coin, marked details and save a bunch of money. Or you can get a (b) higher quality damaged coin .. I guess it depends upon perspective but sometimes (a) = (b). You either win, or lose depending upon your perspective.

Until then remember a "perfect" coin is a "perfect" coin and some collectors strive for that perfect coin .. not a coin that is perfect except for some surface damage, or do you want to call that imperfections? Either way, it's not perfect, original, unaltered.

You can do what many people do. Buy a coin, enjoy it. Then flip it and buy a better grade coin. Work your way up the ladder. Or don't buy that coin and save up your money to initially buy a higher grade coin. Either way, you win.


and remember .. scratches are in the eye of the beholder ..

 

Good question and thanks for sharing your perspective. Don't be afraid to share your observations and opinions. This shows you are interested in this hobby and are not just here for the quick buck. We all have our favorite colors and flavors and the things we detest are just as variable. I hate fingerprints, scratches and polished/rubbed surfaces myself.

 

So EAC grading is evil? Ancient coin grading is evil?

People who ACTUALLY know how to grade aren't confused by it. They may have disagreements but they have good knowledge of what should and shouldn't be net graded. People that just want to promote themselves for their own gain are often very confused by grading

 

Thank you all for the replies here. This is one of those things where - even while writing this - I “get it” but “don’t get it” if that makes sense. Ie: I get the grade and value based on details, but I also don’t get certain aspects of it. All just questions going through my head while going down this road of becoming a collector.

Also I did use the term polished earlier but I don’t think I used it right. I was thinking of the somewhat common occurrence of grandparents polishing a passed down coin that they kept say in a keepsake box or jewelry box. Not like taking it to a buffing wheel to
Make it mirror like.

 

As a fellow newb, I hate harshly cleaned surfaces with lots of hairlines and just don't buy them (for anything more than melt). But a lightly cleaned, lustrous AU-53 vs. a dull EF-40? I'll usually take the former.

 

The truth is, there's a lot of odd rationalization when it comes to grading.

Rubbing a coin across not-very-rough surfaces produces a problem-free circulated coin; rubbing a coin once across a surface with some grit on it produces a scratched, ungradeable coin.

Oh, but if it's a key date, that rubbing might only be "cabinet friction", and the coin might still get an MS grade. If it's (say) a circulated early bust half, even fairly substantial gouges might not prevent it from grading. And let's not even talk about hairlines on early proofs.

This is all still better than toning, though, which is currently dominated by a weird twist on magical thinking -- whether it's acceptable or not depends (in part) on what you intended to have happen while the coin was stored.

 

I hope it didnt come across as a rant More of a "I wonder why" mixed with experience in other collecting areas with parallel considerations!