The Myth of toned coins.....

Doug is right about the wrapper in probably every aspect except the date. Yes, you could get 20 silver dollars back in the 20's without a problem. 1, clang, 2, clang,.....20, clang. Then you put them in you pocket and hoped they did not fall through. That is probably a big reason why they are so much more popular today then they were from issue through sometime in the GSA era.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

You just toss em in your pocket. I don't see why the bank HAS to sell you wrapped coins. Take for example half dollars, they are sold at banks loose all the time.

 

To reiterate what rlm has said, the banks in the 20's probably did not put the silver dollars into rolls for the customers, but I wouldn't go as far as agreeing with rlm on his description. It was probably more like one-clink, two-clink.....twenty-clink! LOL! You should also bear in mind that many of the banks did not keep bags of silver dollars on hand because they simply were not popular. Many of those struck remained in the vaults of the branch mints only to be (eventually) shipped to the Treasury Department never to see the light of day.

Also, with the Treasury releases of the 60' & 70's, it seems hard to imagine anyone purchasing the $1K bags and not searching them. These were almost totally uncirculated coins. Of course, they were searched and eventually placed in paper rolls or tubes to be sold and searched (and dipped) over and over again. Thinking that anyone could acquire an "original" roll in the 80's or 90's is a little bit farfetched. Even the non-governmental hoards like Battle Creek, Continental, Omaha, Fitzgerald and Binion were searched. Sure, many dealers back then made claims of having unsearched, original rolls so they could sell them to the public. Let's face it, they weren't much different then than some of the sellers on eBay now.

Chris

 

Prior to the depletion of the CC's in the 70's, there were about 150 million silver dollars remaining in the Treasury vaults in 1961. In 1962, millions of 1898-O, 1899-O, 1900-O, 1901-O, 1902-O, 1903-O & 1904-O were released and by 1963, the Treasury stock was down to about 50 million. Then in the latter part of 1963, quantities of 1921-P Morgan, 1922-P & 1923-P Peace were released followed by 1878 (P,CC,S), 1879 (P,O,S), 1880 (P,O,S), 1881 (P,O,S), 1882 (P,O,S), 1883 (P,O), 1884 (P,O), 1885 (P,O,S), 1886 (P,O), 1887 (P,O), 1888 (P,O), 1889-P, 1890-P, 1891-P, 1896-P, 1897-P, 1898-P, 1900-P, 1902-P & 1903-P so by 1964, there were only about 3 million uncirculated silver dollars which were primarily the CC's being held in the Treasury vaults.

Chris

 

I had done some research on that subject. Now I can't claim this a fact, but my research concluded that it was the New Netherlands Coin Company in N.Y. along with Wayte Raymond in a private venture which was shortly lived for other business disputes . Fact or Fiction........I can't say.

 

This is the listing of what the GSA was tasked to sell in the early 1970's is it not? This is after silver dollar redemptions were halted. The mint knew cc's were worth more than other mints so they specifically held these from redemptions. Are you trying to tell me then tens of millions of Morgans released to the general public in the 50's and 60's, (including bags of almost previously unknown 1903 O's), weren't ever in the mints vaults? So where the heck were they? I thought it was equally well documented that the 215,000,000 morgans melted in the Pittman Act was from the mint vaults. Are you telling me those hundreds of millions of morgans were somewhere else as well?

I guess I am just dense this morning, I don't understand where the mint would have held all of these coins.

P.S. The other Chris beat me to the punch, with better numbers.

 

The numbers I quoted, 150 million, 50 million & 3 million, were just the uncirculated dollars.

Chris

 

As a slight digression, these are what my father kept his barber dimes in. I always thought they were tubes made for coins, but I read the one end today. I guess they came from the originator of CT. BTW, these were kept in Camel cigarette tins. I am now the owner of 2 tubes and 3 tins.

 

an old-timer once told me that he was able to buy "paper wrapped" rolls of dollars from his local bank during the 30's,maybe not every bank in the country wrapped their coins in paper rolls?

 

I think those that say there can't be original white coins left especially when we are talking about the tens of millions of uncirculated morgans still available in the market are mistaken. I know for a fact that when the battle creek hoards bags (9 bags) were opened....along with the 1,400 hundred or so nicely toned morgans...there were in fact thousands of blast white examples in the bags and it makes perfect sense as the coins closer to the cloth bag would be the coins found with toning and the coins in the middle with little to no exposure to the sulfer in the cloth would remain untoned. I also don't believe for a second that banks were in the habit of dipping coins anymore than they would be in the habit of washing paper bills at the bank today. Coins were rebagged and resealed for sure but dipping was not a bank practice but rather a collector/dealer practice. You can be sure that there are still sealed bags available on the market today that were sealed in the 50's or 60's and if opened you would find a large population of blast white coins. How many bags still survive.....probably not a whole lot but there are a lot of old time collectors/investors with these things still sitting in their closets and as they pass on their relatives dump these things on the market from time to time.

I am a toned coin fanatic and that will never change for me...I am very accepting of those that prefer white coins, I just wish the reverse were true. If you don't like toned coins there is no need to label them damaged or artificial....simply collect what you like and allow others to do the same without all of the negativity.

Chris...Ringo.....all of the damaged coins are mine and if you step on my toes in this thread...me and mr E-Z-Est Coin Cleaner will be sneaking over to your house and I will leave it up to your imaginiation as to what your rainbow beauties will look like after I get done with them....

 

I would agree. They aren't common since most collectors over the years wanted to "improve" their coins. Also, once a coin is by itself its very easy to tone, especially if handled. I am others were just pointing out that these bags leaving the vaults probably were mostly white, though at least 80% have toned since, (probably more like 99%). They USED to be white naturally, and there may be a few remaining. Mostly what you said Doug, just with a twist.

Chris

 

Now that you mention it, I remember seeing more than one roll wrapped in ruled paper, newspaper, etc. i.e., any paper someone could lay their hands on.

 

DGJMSP
why not? if the coins came out of an original bag then wrapped at a local bank. base on your theory then there are no such thing as orginal rolls of any denomination.

 

The oldest I have ever seen was manila envelopes rolled. I almost bought, (went high when they unwrapped it) from an old dealers auction 20 years ago a "roll" of uncirculated indian head cents. They were lined up in the bottom of the envelope, then the envelope rolled to form what looked like a modern roll. He had rolls of Lincolns the same way, dating 1909 to about 1918, (one roll of 1914s). I do not know how common this was, but looked like a good way to store them in absence of tubes. I saw a lot of those hard red tubes too, it was very interesting to see they were made for something else!

Dang, looking back I should have bought more at that auction, but I was young and didn't have much money.