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<p>[QUOTE="ro1974, post: 2801207, member: 73358"]the story goes further</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Towards the end of the 4th century Britain came under increasing pressure from <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbarian" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbarian" rel="nofollow">barbarian</a> attacks, and there were not enough troops to mount an effective defence. After elevating two disappointing <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_usurper" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_usurper" rel="nofollow">usurpers</a>, the army chose a soldier, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_III_%28Western_Roman_Emperor%29" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_III_%28Western_Roman_Emperor%29" rel="nofollow">Constantine III</a>, to become emperor in 407. He crossed to Gaul but was defeated by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorius_%28emperor%29" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorius_%28emperor%29" rel="nofollow">Honorius</a>; it is unclear how many troops remained or ever returned, or whether a commander-in-chief in Britain was ever reappointed. A <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxons" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxons" rel="nofollow">Saxon</a> incursion in 408 was apparently repelled by the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britons_%28Celtic_people%29" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britons_%28Celtic_people%29" rel="nofollow">Britons</a>, and in 409 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zosimus" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zosimus" rel="nofollow">Zosimus</a> records that the natives expelled the Roman civilian administration. However, Zosimus may be referring to the Bacaudic rebellion of the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretons" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretons" rel="nofollow">Breton</a> inhabitants of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armorica" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armorica" rel="nofollow">Armorica</a> since he describes how, in the aftermath of the revolt, all of Armorica and the rest of Gaul followed the example of the Brettaniai. A letter from Emperor Honorius in 410 has traditionally been seen as rejecting a British appeal for help, but it may have been addressed to <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calabria" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calabria" rel="nofollow">Bruttium</a> or <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna" rel="nofollow">Bologna</a>.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Britain#cite_note-Moorhead-62" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Britain#cite_note-Moorhead-62" rel="nofollow">[62]</a> With the imperial layers of the military and civil government gone, administration and justice fell to municipal authorities, and local warlords gradually emerged all over Britain, still utilizing <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romano-British" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romano-British" rel="nofollow">Romano-British</a> ideals and conventions. Laycock has investigated this process and emphasised elements of continuity from the British tribes in the pre-Roman and Roman periods, through to the native post-Roman kingdoms.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Britain#cite_note-Laycock-63" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Britain#cite_note-Laycock-63" rel="nofollow">[63]</a></p><p><br /></p><p>In British/Welsh tradition, pagan Saxons were invited by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortigern" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortigern" rel="nofollow">Vortigern</a> to assist in fighting the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picts" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picts" rel="nofollow">Picts</a> and Irish, though Germanic migration into Roman Britannia may have begun much earlier. There is recorded evidence, for example, of Germanic <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxilia" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxilia" rel="nofollow">auxiliaries</a> supporting the legions in Britain in the 1st and 2nd centuries. The new arrivals rebelled, plunging the country into a series of wars that eventually led to the Saxon occupation of Lowland Britain by 600. Around this time many Britons fled to <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittany" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittany" rel="nofollow">Brittany</a> (hence its name), <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britonia" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britonia" rel="nofollow">Galicia</a> and probably <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland" rel="nofollow">Ireland</a>. A significant date in sub-Roman Britain is the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groans_of_the_Britons" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groans_of_the_Britons" rel="nofollow">Groans of the Britons</a>, an unanswered appeal to <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavius_Aetius" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavius_Aetius" rel="nofollow">Aetius</a>, leading general of the western Empire, for assistance against Saxon invasion in 446. Another is the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Deorham" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Deorham" rel="nofollow">Battle of Deorham</a> in 577, after which the significant cities of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath,_Somerset" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath,_Somerset" rel="nofollow">Bath</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirencester" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirencester" rel="nofollow">Cirencester</a> and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloucester" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloucester" rel="nofollow">Gloucester</a> fell and the Saxons reached the western sea.</p><p><br /></p><p>Most scholars reject the historicity of the later <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend" rel="nofollow">legends</a> of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Arthur" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Arthur" rel="nofollow">King Arthur</a>, which seem to be set in this period, but some such as <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Morris_%28historian%29" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Morris_%28historian%29" rel="nofollow">John Morris</a> think there may be some truth to them</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>My Question is those emperors ever so brittain/ was it not only controlled by generals[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="ro1974, post: 2801207, member: 73358"]the story goes further Towards the end of the 4th century Britain came under increasing pressure from [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbarian']barbarian[/URL] attacks, and there were not enough troops to mount an effective defence. After elevating two disappointing [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_usurper']usurpers[/URL], the army chose a soldier, [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_III_%28Western_Roman_Emperor%29']Constantine III[/URL], to become emperor in 407. He crossed to Gaul but was defeated by [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorius_%28emperor%29']Honorius[/URL]; it is unclear how many troops remained or ever returned, or whether a commander-in-chief in Britain was ever reappointed. A [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxons']Saxon[/URL] incursion in 408 was apparently repelled by the [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britons_%28Celtic_people%29']Britons[/URL], and in 409 [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zosimus']Zosimus[/URL] records that the natives expelled the Roman civilian administration. However, Zosimus may be referring to the Bacaudic rebellion of the [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretons']Breton[/URL] inhabitants of [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armorica']Armorica[/URL] since he describes how, in the aftermath of the revolt, all of Armorica and the rest of Gaul followed the example of the Brettaniai. A letter from Emperor Honorius in 410 has traditionally been seen as rejecting a British appeal for help, but it may have been addressed to [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calabria']Bruttium[/URL] or [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna']Bologna[/URL].[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Britain#cite_note-Moorhead-62'][62][/URL] With the imperial layers of the military and civil government gone, administration and justice fell to municipal authorities, and local warlords gradually emerged all over Britain, still utilizing [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romano-British']Romano-British[/URL] ideals and conventions. Laycock has investigated this process and emphasised elements of continuity from the British tribes in the pre-Roman and Roman periods, through to the native post-Roman kingdoms.[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Britain#cite_note-Laycock-63'][63][/URL] In British/Welsh tradition, pagan Saxons were invited by [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortigern']Vortigern[/URL] to assist in fighting the [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picts']Picts[/URL] and Irish, though Germanic migration into Roman Britannia may have begun much earlier. There is recorded evidence, for example, of Germanic [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxilia']auxiliaries[/URL] supporting the legions in Britain in the 1st and 2nd centuries. The new arrivals rebelled, plunging the country into a series of wars that eventually led to the Saxon occupation of Lowland Britain by 600. Around this time many Britons fled to [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittany']Brittany[/URL] (hence its name), [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britonia']Galicia[/URL] and probably [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland']Ireland[/URL]. A significant date in sub-Roman Britain is the [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groans_of_the_Britons']Groans of the Britons[/URL], an unanswered appeal to [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavius_Aetius']Aetius[/URL], leading general of the western Empire, for assistance against Saxon invasion in 446. Another is the [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Deorham']Battle of Deorham[/URL] in 577, after which the significant cities of [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath,_Somerset']Bath[/URL], [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirencester']Cirencester[/URL] and [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloucester']Gloucester[/URL] fell and the Saxons reached the western sea. Most scholars reject the historicity of the later [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend']legends[/URL] of [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Arthur']King Arthur[/URL], which seem to be set in this period, but some such as [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Morris_%28historian%29']John Morris[/URL] think there may be some truth to them My Question is those emperors ever so brittain/ was it not only controlled by generals[/QUOTE]
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