The "I don't buy Coins from coin dealers at shows and stick to online buying" thread

My #1 hero is Bill Nye the Science Guy....one day you might over take him.

 

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Absolutely. I have nothing against the concept of the coin show. I love walking the floor and chatting with the toned dealers I would sell to. I don't enjoy the vastly overpriced material. This recent thread illustrates this point and it wasn't mine.

Some observations from the coin show
Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by bkozak33, Sunday at 6:21 PM.

I just want to get the best coin at the best price. And going back to my example coin Doug the dealers coin and mine were exactly the same. I don't care if I buy the coin from bob the confused hobo walking the street or the dealer at the coin show. I just don't want to pay 3x a coins value. And that is not only my but others experience at coin shows.

I have bough two coins at a show. I'm not saying to never buy there. But my experience is the better deal is usually available online. Online, every dealer has to not only compete with each other but they also have to compete with collectors directly selling to other collectors.

Sure eBay has over priced coins. But with the viewing tools simply set the parameters and then look at lowest to highest and skip whatever you feel is unnecessary.

 

You will automatically pay 10% more, plus Paypal fees for the same coin from Ebay, versus a dealer in hand, because that is what it is costing a dealer in seller's fees, plus listing expenses, if it isn't a free listing period, so your theory regarding informatix doesn't necessarily hold water with the realities of the market. Now, some dealers want to dump inventory that they've been holding for a long time, but in general, unless one really knows what they're doing, YOU WILL OVERPAY as a self-described neophyte.

 

So are there frictionless pulleys where you live? I remember talking about them in high school physics. Unless I'm mistaken ( wow I actually have to number these)

1. There are table fees, hotel costs and airfare to list a few. Your dealers have overhead just like any other venue.

2. In capitalism the more sellers the more competition the lower the widget price. A show might have a couple hundred. On line there are tens of thousands.

3. You are forgetting that online collectors also sell. And they don't mind not getting that extra dealer markup to cover overhead as there is none.

4. This is a good example of the concept of online competition. You have a coin a dealer is selling vs what is available on eBay. FYI there is a fourth coin but the picture cut off.


5. at no time am I claiming that ALL coins in any venue are great or problematic. I just state that the increased competition online drives prices down. The old school model is being replaced by online buyers.

6. Lastly if you want to pay a premium for coin in hand go ahead. I'm not saying that this is the right or wrong way to buy. I'm saying it is more expensive and with returns unnecessary.

 

I am not really for or against you on this thread Vic, I think you can see that in my previous post. One thing I would say about shows is the dealers tend to mark every coin at the highest they really can, knowing everyone will try to get some off of this. I am not a great bargainer, I do better in auction situations because I know I am not a haggler. But, even I ask and get money off purchases at shows. The one I bought last weekend was marked $45 and I bought for $35. So, I agree if you only look at sticker prices at a show they will seem high, but the price items actually sell are usually less.

Like I said, many venues to buy from, and different ways to buy. I have bought coins about eevry way you can think of, and the common denominator to a good deal is always knowledge, knowing what you are buying, its desirability, the going rate, etc.

 

Recycled post from this thread. Let me know about that overpaying concept again.

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/prices-on-slabs-at-coin-shows.251576/page-7#post-1982216

This describes me exactly. While I try to take a day off to go to a show I don't want to waste my time talking to a dealer when we are so far apart on pricing. And because there is no standardized method of pricing toned coins and even with white coins some people are so far over bid I have no interest in buying or even discussing anything. I'll stop and admire what they have and move on.

The msg board has seen a lot of my coins. Only two came from a show. I overpaid on a few coinfacts coin but on many other I got good online rates I.g. I went to the pcgs only show a dealer was selling pcgs proof walkers. He wanted double gray bid because they had none of the haze I see so often on these coins. I honestly thought the guy had a good point and left. I bought a pcgs 64 walker proof on ebay two weeks later and paid $10 over gray bid.


Offered $20 less then I paid for this one, by one of the dealers here.



Offered $200 less then purchase by a dealer at a vegas show



A few examples to make my point.

My point is not that I am an awesome coin professional. My point is that I am not.

If someone with as little experience can purchase coins like this at the prices noted above it tells you one thing. Between tpg, internet, information(I use grey, coinfacts, ebay completed, and heritage) and a return policy that really that is all you need to succeed. Yes you need to be able to look at a coin and decide if it would work well with the grade but what the examples show is how seriously little experience is needed, and how far you can cut the middleman's piece of the pie.

 

Look I'm not saying one way is better or worse. I'm saying one way is almost always cheaper. If shows work for you great but I'm not the only guy here who has issues with show pricing. And again my experience is even with the "deal" after the negotiation that you still usually can do better online.

 

In yesterday's world I would have had to buy that svdb from someone like the penny lady for full retail. In today's world she wanted to buy it from me for $20 less then I paid. This is my point. This is what is possible in today's world. This is why guys like me and the geek exist in coin land as we do today.

Look this all comes down to math and statics. Say there is one in a thousand a great buy out there. In a show that is one or two coins total, usually snapped up quick. On eBay alone there are over 100,000 pcgs and ngc coins at all times. And that is just eBay. Now add google and gc in, with heritage, stacks and all the others. Now do the math and see where the bargains are.

 

You are completely WRONG, as a neophyte, and are using ipso-facto logic to justify your position. In general, coins are much more expensive on Ebay--fact of life, for anybody who has purchased them for years and years. Not to say there aren't bargains, but given your obvious bias for looking at various sources, go right ahead, and pay inflated prices to cover the dealer fees. Moreover, coins are sometimes misrepresented by inaccurate photos online, so it takes really good experience to purchase quality coins on Ebay--years of experience gleaned from study and trial and error by collecting "in the trenches." Any fool can purchase an exclusive Ebay collection, and never see a single coin in advance of purchase, but that is no challenge. Discernment is one of the keys of experienced collection, and it sounds like you could care less about the ability to discern the quality of a coin in advance of purchase. A wee bit of arrogance is demonstrated on this thread.

When I have sold coins on Ebay, and that is rare, the price has been significantly adjusted to cover my expenses--if one were to deal with me directly, the'd get a much better price. I have had hundreds of transactions on Ebay, and know the game as well as anybody, so have fun with your theory of avoiding shows, dealers, and other face-to-face sources.

 

Its the "almost always" that I have a problem with I guess sir. "Many times", yeah I agree, "often times", probably, "almost always", no. I went to CICF and got a group from a pick bin I posted here once. A few might remember it. I bet you the average value of those coins was around $40, (at the time),and I got them for $18 each. I also had a bunch of fun doing it, the type of fun simply not possible online. I have also gotten some coins from dealers who don't normally carry that type of coins cheaply. I got a Visigothic gold coin for about a third of what any ancient dealer is asking for one for example.

So no, I simply do not agree with"almost always" sir.

 

Better deals on line?

Do you check ebay?

1803
Bust $1/2 VG-08 = $275
F-12 $650

Here:

VG-10 $1495
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1803-DRAPED...20?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item4842e30c6c



How about: 1814/3 XF-40
Trends: $1,000

Here: $1,599.99
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1814-3-Bust...94?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item337ed21dc6

1814: AU-50
Trends: $750

A deal here at only $1,220

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1814-50c-PC...50?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item2ed355fcba

And those only took three minutes to find.

And I didn't try very hard.

 

I never said every coin on eBay is a deal. In fact look above you will see my stastical idea with good deals. Instead of looking for the 999 look for the 1. Or just take two minutes and actually read my above post.

 

So we can agree to disagree. Awesome.

 

I would agree with "occasionally."

 

So

1. You just are going to ignore the three example coins I posted. Awesome. I can't argue something if my facts are not evaluated and discussed.

2. It is interesting that you are calling someone arrogant without addressing the actual example coins posted. You are calling someone who tells you they are not an expert arrogant apparently because they have the nerve to disagree with your opinion, and have the gall to back up their statements with factual examples with photos. The nerve of that guy!

 

So multiply occasionally times hundreds of thousands online. Then compare this number to occasionally times a few thousand coins at a show. Which number is more likely to be much larger then the other?

 

Nope. You gave a few out of context examples, as if they were gospel. That doesn't refute the many people who have overpaid for coins on Ebay. Ask around here, and don't be so stubborn with your own personal experiences.

 

Out of context? They are exactly what I am talking about. A couple of you guys are really good at misrepresently misstating my points then arguing against your new version of my statement. Once again I never said ebay was never overpricing coins. I specifically said that you can find better deals online then at shows. Read the title of the thread if there is some confusion here. Please argue against what I said not what is easier to argue against. If you want I can repost my prior statements if there is any confusion. Again just look up the above posts I made.

I can keep posting coins I bought at prices but I suspect you will just ignore them as you did my first batch. How many batches would I have to post to get you to admit I might be on to something? I don't know probable something like how many licks to get to the center of a tootsie pop.
My point is what I'm doing is a newer version of collecting and buying. I certainly did not invent or create it. Bigger pond means more big fish.