The Future of CoinTalk

Your third point there fiatfiasco is not my intention by any means. I probably should not have brought it up money at all and most likely this whole thing would remain free. My aim is not to turn this into a business venture my aim is to help people. However there may or may not in the future be costs associated with this down the road and I may or may not need assistance. I probably shoud have watched my wording there and I completely understand where you are coming from that is simply not the case.

 

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Also I do not want some of Ct's experts to do everything I just would like some of them to help out by doing a guest lecture of some sort. For instance Lehigh here is an expert when it comes to Jefferson Nickels. Once the course gets to Jefferson Nickels I would ask Lehigh to use his expertise to teach the class. Sorta how a teacher would bring in a guest speaker to teach the class one day. This is what I had meant in asking for help here.

Lehigh I know you already do not wish to do this I was only using you as an example to explain my point. Thanks

 

Yeeeah, no. Can't really back pedal out of this one. The design and scope of your "idea" is defined by hours and hours, or, in your words, YEARS, of labor from others. Money is, and always does, come up in anything falling into the scope of something that time intensive.

I really think having a really interesting thread topic every day, or week, or biweekly would be a much healthier, and honest approach. You can even name it "Josh's Coin University Lesson 1 - Grading 101"...and then the next week "Josh's Coin University Lesson 2 - Advanced Grading"...this way you satisfy your need to teach, you aren't riding the CoinTalk coat-tails by borrowing the good name, and you aren't making others commit their time to teaching at your "University". Seems like a much more realistic, honest and effective method. And it would be open to any and all viewers of the site, regardless of when they first find it, they can always go back and catch up. Not just those who enroll in the "University".

 

But that is exactly my point. You're depending on others to do the work for your idea. Its all gravy bud, do whatever you want, I just don't think your motivations are being honestly communicated, and if they were, there is a much simpler method to deliver the numismatic knowledge you claim you want to (see my above suggestion in post #63). I mean, that is the purpose of Peters site, a forum to gain numismatic knowledge. I don't really see the wheel being reinvented here....or a better mousetrap. I see a sticker advertising for a mousetrap made in China on an American mousetrap, I would rather just buy American.

 

Some of you guys are really hard to please. Everytime I try to do something it is immediately shot down by some of you. Why the heck is this even an argument? I want to educate people about coins how can you be against that? Sometimes it takes more than a few forum posts to teach people things. Think about it did you learn Calculus by reading a bunch of forum posts? no of course not you watched videos went to lectures tried problems on your own and read books.

Some of you really just discourage me and it was one of the reasons I left CoinTalk for a long time after everyone was so quick to bash my idea of opening an online Coin shop.

 

I think you have really good intentions but looking at the whole thing objectively, it seems a bit infeasible...it seems like there is still a lot of uncertainty surrounding it and a lot of things that you may have assumed that will be tough to accomplish (getting regular guest lecturers, payment, having it be over the course of multiple years) at the current time, but given more thought, could probably be ironed out into a more successful program. That is my (hopefully interpreted as constructive) criticism.

 

Yes there is still a lot of things that I need to figure out and it will be ironed into a successful program. Thanks for your thoughts non cents

 

Its not an argument. Your ideas are shot down for the same reason most of humanity's ideas are shot down; they arent any good, or well thought out, or make good sense. Its not an insult. No one is stopping you, jeez, the owner of the site is even letting you leech the name. But obviously you hyped this up and publicized it with the intent of drawing attention. Well, you got it. In the real world, people dont kiss your buttocks following every word you say. And no one learned calculus from a forum - that is a ridiculous analogy. And yes, I taught myself Calculus, from 2 separate books, in 9th grade, while enrolled in Trig. Remember, 30 years ago there was no internet, we learned from books.

I don't know about your past ideas, your hiatus from CT, etc. But from the posts I have read, why woud you open an online coin shop....IN THIS ONE THREAD ALONE YOU HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED YOUR OWN LACK OF NUMISMATIC KNOWLEDGE AND HOW YOU WOULD NEED OTHERS TO TEACH FOR YOU. You want to open a business that depends on your ability to assess value in buying and selling coins, buying and selling, buying and selling, constant flipping...? Really? Did you take a different route and open a shop with Detecto on Etsy?

Don't take it so hard bud. Free country, open your University. I would be shocked though if people are really going to dedicate their time to promoting your University. Maybe for a few lessons, then they will come to the conclusion that for the time they are putting in, the payoff, or because you are now uncertain how money will factor in, the minimal "positive numismatic effect" they are really having.

 

Maybe I am sadistic, I just don't see good intentions. I see the opposite. I see getting others to volunteer their time and expertise and his cloudy financial benefit down the road.

 

Josh, for what it is worth, this is what I would have done different.

1. No CoinTalk University, maybe Numismatic University if you want , this does 2 things. First it doesn't look like it is taking advantage of work Peter and others have done to make this site what it is, and second, it would be easier to recruit instructors and students from all of the coin forums.

2. Don't start a class, without really having planned it out. You should start with a class list and each class-should have a written description and suggested prerequisites before taking it. If they are going to graduate , then list the 'majors'. Get the instructors lined up and let them make the class outlines and evaluations. This looked as just a half thought out self-promotion. Without the expert instructors first, it will be a hodgepodge affair.

3. Take time to think it completely through, so it has 'matter', really means something as far as educating collectors. In education ideas are a dime a dozen, well worked out plans and implementation steps are useful.

some repeated above, was typing

 

No, I had built my own website from scratch and showed the prototype to everyone and it did not end well. But I am not giving up on it I know the mistakes I made. But that is not neccesarily important right now.
I know you see this as something I am doing to make a bunch of money and all that but that is not what it is and I will show you once courses begin.

 

I have been working on this for quite sometime now. It takes a while to write all of this out. I have a written description of the class that will be taught soon. I have planned out this course and given thought to different majors. Getting instructors is quite hard so far the people I would like to be part of this are either way too busy or are completely uninterested.

 

You are taking this the wrong way. You don't need to show me anything. As with most things in my life, when I find something I like, or want to learn about, I do research, some would say, obsessively. I do not subscribe to the College/University bandwagon. I believe it has its place for careers such as doctors, law, engineers, etc. But for something such as numismatics, I do not.

I have a very lucky position as I both collect (a majority) and "invest" (the minority), and I would argue, both, successfully. I have my own stream of income, business, investments from things outside of metals and coins. However, as most married men will most likely agree, telling your wife you spent $X on a coin, doesn't always go so well; especially if that number is equal to a mortgage payment, and you had this conversation 3x in a month. However, when you become knowledgeable in an area, you tend to make better decisions in things dealing with that area/subject. So, for example, if I was at a coin show looking for a coin to complete a set for my collecting side, and lets just say it costs $1000, and I do not find it, but in my 3 hours walking around I did happen to find a (------) coin easily worth lets say $2500 on ebay, meaning I could list it as a BIN listing on ebay and after fees and only a 1 day listing, almost guarantee someone would snap it up at $2500, and the dealer will let me have it for $1000 cash on the spot, yeah, I will buy this ugly godforsaken coin, with no intent on holding it more than a week until the following coin show where I can continue to hunt for my hobby item, I will buy it and flip it. And then I get my coin for free, and an extra $500. That is why I say I am successful in both my collecting and investing. Haven't lost money on a coin yet. But all of that is only possible if you know what you are doing. I believe this is why you received so much "negative feedback" for your coin store idea. Marketing, overhead, inventory, etc, I just dont see you weighing all of these factors in based off of your analysis and presentation of this idea..

 

This should be all of the feedback you need. Period. If you cannot or do not have the resources/knowledge to do this, you cannot expect others to just give it to you.

 

Josh,

let me offer these observations:

1) I think you're putting the cart before the horse. You are hyping a "University" and that implies a level of education that you may or may not be able to deliver.

2) People are taking exception with your using the CoinTalk name to lend credibility to your endeavor, and that seems intellectually incongruent to them since many of them are already contributors to the exchange of knowledge here on the forum.

My suggestion is that you begin to educate people first and call it an education when it becomes one. Many people here write enlightening threads. You have already mentioned Paul (LeHigh) and his knowledge of Jefferson Nickels. How do you know he's knowledgeable? Because he's already written tens if not hundreds of good educational threads. If he wanted to open a Jefferson Nickel University, it would be his expertise that would lend credibility to the curriculum, not his list of guest speakers.

3) As far as things scaling up and you eventually needing assistance, that in my mind is the worst of your mistakes. If you want to share knowledge, then do so. If it costs you money to do so, then bear the cost.

Matt (LostDutchman) and I created a podcast about coins and coin collecting. It costs us our time as well as a token investment to produce, but we do so as a way of giving back to the numismatic community. And trust me, it's not because either of us is wealthy, we're not.

This is the most honest assessment I can give you. Educate people first, then call it exactly what it is. Shout it from the highest mountain. (People will back you up for it too!)

If you'd like an example of how you do it, research posts from a user named "Clinker" and you'll find out exactly what I mean. I wish you nothing but success in your efforts to educate people. Good luck.

 

It's not that anyone is hard to please, nor is it that you're being "shot down". The question, at least from my perspective, is not your desire, but your qualifications. I do not doubt that you may be a fine teacher, but in the not so distant past you admitted to being unfamiliar with a number of common US types, so what has changed? This is an honest question. Also, please tell us why a newbie or anyone else should take your courses instead of participating on this or another coin forum a learn from the experienced and knowledgeable members? What is it that you can offer them (or anyone) that they cannot get elsewhere?

I was involved in that thread and cannot help but to take this a little personally, Josh. It seems as if you're failing to realize that there is a great difference between constructive criticism and bashing. No one "bashed" your idea of opening an online coin store, but what they did do was question your ability and approach. You also admitted to having little inventory, no connections, and lied about your abilities, so what would you expect most to say? I also recall that, similar to this venture, you also offered future employment for anyone willing to donate their time/knowledge in building your business instead of doing it on your own. If you felt the need to leave CT, not to rethink your strategy as claimed, but because you were not coddled and chose to take honest advice as discouragement, there is nothing else I can say to or do for you.

I do respect your enthusiasm, Josh, but as with the online shop, it seems as if you're putting the cart before the horse, but still I wish you luck.

 

I wish I knew how to say what I wanted to and not sound as harsh as I do. Well said.

 

You make quite a few good points there. But would you please remind me how I lied about my abilities? I do not recall ever lying to anyone be it on CT or my personal life. I work hard to being an honest man. Also I did take honest advice from that thread which I still reread every now and again but I have have been bashed after that thread was posted. most of which was in Pm's. Now while I did leave cointalk for a period of time I had rethought my strategy and I am still working on it. Also I would like to point out that the whole volunteer aspect of this was not to have a bunch of people to build my business for me. I am quite capable of doing this myself my aim there was to train some employees and/or network with other people early on and then pay them by hour and commission. I stated this several times that I did not want volunteers to build/run my business for me but that was constantly overlooked for some reason.

Back on topic to CTU. First I will address the qualifications. I have explained this already but let me make it more clear. I have a background in teaching people in particular I teach History which is related to coinage. I have admittedly told everyone that I do not have as strong of a numismatic background as many of you experts on CT but I will do much research and make sure I learn the material before I teach it to others. This is why the course starts a month from now and not tomorrow. As for experts helping out this is more focused on the future but for the time being I would just like them to do 1 or 2 lectures of some sort to educate the students. I think they would appreciate it. Down the road I would need more people to help me run everything because I can't teach 5 classes at one time I would need people to help out and run courses themselves in CTU. Any successful educational organization is not run by a single teacher that is teaching multiple subjects.

 

You have how much experience teaching? A few months? Truthfully, you wouldn't qualify to teach middle school in my state. Let alone university.

and you're not going to learn enough to do so in a single month.

Learn then share.

What this sounds like to me is that you want to be the boss, and it takes more to be the boss than just being in charge. In many cases, in order to be the boss, you have to know how to do all of the basic jobs. In this case, you lack the requisite skills to teach numismatics. You DO, however have some background in history. This is invaluable in coin collecting, but it's only one piece of the puzzle. Don't sell yourself short, but let's face it, the lofty aspirations that you are espousing require a depth of knowledge that is not going to come to you in any small period of time. Most of the experts here have invested years into their pursuits. It's kind of arrogant of you to assume that you can equal that in a month.

 

Mike I suppose you are right. I suppose you are all right. however I do have 18 people that have signed up for this course. I do not want to disappoint them. Now I am unsure of what to do.

Also you are right about me wanting to be the boss. your comment there is the most valuable thing I have ever read.

Thank you. Thank you all