The Furure of the coin collecting

doppeltaler you sold some of your coins through stacks if I'm correct and they take a portion of the price. I had mentioned to you before to offer them on the forums, either PCGS where your active and here. No fees and you would have netted more money. I didn't even bid on your stacks auctions as I didn't want the extra 20% buyers fee. If you had put them here, I'm sure you would have more buyers and myself.

Also as far as value, if my coins lose value in the future, I'm not worried. I collect for the enjoyment, not the investment. I will say this, coins hold their value much better than other things, I could have wasted the money on clothes, etc and they lose 100% of their value pretty much, so coins aren't that bad.

 

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I had a good experience with stacks. I doubt I could get more selling here within a short period of time and no hazle of shipping all the coins.

 

That was an example, but it is a rare 3 taler. Mind if i ask where do you sell? From my experience, it is always hard to sell a problem coin.

 

Yeah, I let Heritage sell my Canadian/ US Obsolete banknote collection. It turned out positive, as I let them bank the $ and use it to pay for my coin wins. Great experience...

 

I just noted, that all my proxy bids (Triton XXII/ Heritage) have been outbid, even though these where well over estimate. That shows how crazy the coin market is.

 

If you could take a time machine back 50 years ago to Jan. 1970 and went to a coin show back then you would see that most of the people there would be older folks born between 1910-1920. And those folks would be commenting about the future of the hobby and that there were so few young collectors around.

 

I haven't researched your coin, if it's a 3 taler the story is different!Selling problem talers is not an issue!Most of european auction houses, as i'm sure you know, sell a ton of problem talers and for good prices!Not everyone can afford MS pieces so most have to fight for what's left and there is always demand. On ebay for example there's at least two dealers that i know that sell talers with various issues for more than i would have imagined!I've also noticed that 2 talers and high graders/rare ones , do not hit the real value or, let's say the auction house price !Last year i managed to sell a 1.5 taler and barely made 50£ on it, which blew my mind, but that's ebay in this case.Now when it comes to single talers/large coins that i've sold last year on ebay, i'll give you 4 examples:1710 hall taler,VF,obv. brooch mark, bought for 100£-sold for 250£/1707 hall taler, EF,tooled and polished,bought for 167£-sold for 295£, 1666 ducaton, VF,some corrosion on it,bought for 150£-sold for 350£, 1779 Nurnberg taler, EF,rev. brooch marks, bought for 112£- sold for 173£ though i previously received a 200£ offer and said no!The list could go on a little more, but the idea is that, although i'm at a low level my sellings reflect whether i'm doing things right or i'm clueless so i kind of need this reality check!You can check my coins posted on here and if you are curious about any i can state the price and why i thought that it was a very good deal or at least a decent one!

 

Very nice coin Doppeltaler!!
I see various trends -
1) Global market - I see emerging demand from the Far East for World Crowns
2) Internet/imaging/grading - flattened the playing field - you can be selective in finding the piece you want and assess price points. People are more selective.
3) Coin shows - reduced presence - new generation is comfortable hanging around on virtual "coin clubs" and using travel/show money to buy coins

In terms of selling, I think you did right with Stacks if you needed to move the coins. The forums are a challenge to sell through - tastes and budgets vary - Auction opens the universe up broader. Coin values appreciate slowly - this is not Google stock. A thoughtful approach will likely get you there. I actually have a bunch of coins with Stacks now for the January sale for the same reason.

 

For US tax purposes, this is considered a capital loss that can be used to offset capital gains. Make sure you keep good records so you can calculate the correct cost basis. I sold 30 coins last year, 29 of them at a loss, so I'll be working my tax forms for this pretty soon.

"A collectibles gain or (loss) is any long-term gain or deductible long-term loss from the sale or exchange of a collectible that is a capital asset. Collectibles include works of art, rugs, antiques, metals (such as gold, silver, and platinum bullion), gems, stamps, coins, alcoholic beverages, and certain other tangible property." -- from the 2019 Instructions for Schedule D

 

There are limits on this for "hobby" losses, though, right?

 

If you treat your coin collecting as a hobby, you are still required to pay taxes if it generates income. Prior to the tax changes in 2018 there was a provision to deduct hobby expenses but that has changed.

"IRS Tax Tip 2019-85, July 1, 2019

Many people enjoy hobbies that are also a source of income. From painting and pottery to scrapbooking and soapmaking, these activities can be sources of both fun and finances. Taxpayers who make money from a hobby must report that income on their tax return.

If someone has a business, they operate the business to make a profit. In contrast, people engage in a hobby for sport or recreation, not to make a profit. Taxpayers should consider nine factors when determining whether their activity is a business or a hobby. They should base their determination on all the facts and circumstances of their activity.

If a taxpayer receives income for an activity that they don’t carry out to make a profit, the expenses they pay for the activity are miscellaneous itemized deductions and can no longer be deducted. The taxpayer must still report the income they receive on Schedule 1, Form 1040, line 21." -- from Tips for taxpayers who make money from a hobby, IRS

In my case, I naively thought I might make money with my coin "investments" and I recorded the date and cost for each coin transaction so that I can handle them as "investments".

 

Thanks for bringing the tax topic up, i will check with my tax accountant on this.

 

Is this a change from previous policy? My understanding was that you can declare hobby-related losses, but can only offset a certain (small) amount of income, and they'll come after you if you do that too many years in a row.

Certainly at the least any "profit" we realize from coins would be after the expenses of buying the coin and/or having it graded and/or auction fees and/or shipping fees. But we can't, say, count the room in which we pursue the hobby as an expense.

 

With regards to the future of our fantastic hobby, I think something every collector should consider is mentoring new collectors. I now have four teenagers in our neighborhood who are becoming budding numismatists. They started out helping my wife and I with chores around the house and yard and I "seasoned" their compensation with some of my duplicate coins, and when interest is shown, coin books, supplies, etc. My granddaughter has also become an avid collector, and I would say that I have brought around 12-15 kids into the hobby over the past 10 years. I get more from investing in young collectors than from any coin I acquire for my personal collection.

 

Exactly....hobby is not about investments, or other forms of making a quick buck. We are into this hobby for enjoyment and enhancing our historical knowledge. I have coins on my mind, every day of the year. Think of this, coins will keep their beauty forever, they just get better with age.
ex: 1700 years old and still radiant

 

What an interesting Thread...Gracias to all the folks who have made it so.
I collect both coins and stamps & I must say that whereas I have made about half of my coin purchases profitable, there has been some sizable ‘goofs’ as well. ($3K on modern U.S. Comms.)Ouch!
Although , if you really want a pure vanity project and ‘not-for-profit’ hobby
become a philatelist....(unless you are buying extreme rarities I.e. Scott C3a)
Perhaps there are others in this group who are just as crazy...Ain’t Life Grand?
Hoc est, Quid Sit,
J.T.

 

I have never been in this hobby for profit. Nothing against those that do.

 

My impression is that the premium being paid for quality has been steadily increasing for years, first in the U.S.market (to ridiculous levels) and now in the non-US markets. Meanwhile the prices of many VF coins (much of my collection) are stagnant

 

Very true.! I know this first hand, since I have been going after MS coins, since childhood.

 

If bowling includes beer frames and poker pots then the cost can be high.