The frustration and fun pompatus in IDing the reusage of a Napoleonic medal and Minerva stops by

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ryro, Jan 16, 2021.

  1. Ryro

    Ryro They call me the 13th Caesar Supporter

    Alrighty, I'm sneaking this one past the goalie by reasoning that it has an ancient goddess on the reverse... and last time I posted in world I got responses like never before... oh, wait. I got no response like ever before.
    And it has a pretty unique back story.
    I went to go, socially distanced, outdoors and with mask, visit my brother today. While we were mid conversation he said, "By the way, I got you this."
    And hands me:
    FRANCE, Premier Empire. Napoléon I. 1804-1814. AR Medal (42mm, 31.6). The Napoleonic Code. By Brenet. Denon, director. Dated L'An 12 (AD 1804). NAPOLEON EMPEREUR, Napoléon standing left, holding scroll / EN L'AN XII • LE CODE CIVIL EST DECRETÉ, Minerva standing right, holding long scepter and scroll. Bramsen 291

    "The coin is a medal that Napoleon made and then someone else turned into a keepsake."
    It was his wife's grampy's from at least the 1970s. Their family has some blood relation to Napoléon. Before it was repurposed Bonaparte used to roll this coin between his fingers while enjoying a bump of whatever gave him the ability to sleep 4 hours a night... or less!
    jk, about that last part.
    I excitedly drove home like a safe but excited person
    And found some answers and some more questions:woot:.
    The medal is celebrating/advertising Napoléon's Civil code that France still uses to this day!
    "The Napoleonic Code (French: Code Napoléon, lit. "Code Napoleon"), officially the Civil Code of the French (French: Code civil des Français; simply referred to as Code civil) is the French civil code established under the French Consulate in 1804 and still in force, although frequently amended.[1]"

    Here's a cherry one that sold for 400 euros last year, not too me:/ Just like mine signed by the designer Brenet Denon:

    My hypothesis was that it was cut in two and not two different coins soldered (though it would have been cool it'd have been mighty bulky).
    With our example weighing 31.5. And the coins I found ranging from 26-36gr depending on the denomination. Despite the lighter weight I think it's the heaviest denomination by its 42 mm girth:cigar:. The slight weight discrepancy being the wear and of course it being cut in half:facepalm:.
    But that's an assumption.
    And what's up with Minerva, the goddess of battle being on the reverse??
    Don't get me wrong. I'm still in love with Minerva. Even after the breakup:bucktooth:
    But why would a coin celebrating their new CIVIL CODE put the ultimate bad B on it? Protection??

    The inside is signed by the guy who turned it from medal to pocket piece...
    (Frankie Carnagie??)
    But who the heck is that?:banghead:
    Still trying to see if I can find info on him. He was talented. It's not easy cutting a coin in half, long ways! Led alone the cool grips he soldered on for ease of opening and the latch, etc

    Side note:
    I also randomly came across this fun little pillbox a while ago, so it's kind of turning into a niche of mine. This coin is soldered to the top of the box and not split in two. Though it is a modern fouree (there are both AR and AE types. This was an AE that somebody, for a time, turned into an AR). @DonnaML has the real deal and it is a showstopper:
    And then inside is where Napoléon surely kept his "Emperors magic" :hilarious: It actually smelled like perfume inside when I recieved it...(not signed:meh:):

    I would like to mention that I don't support the altering and vandalizing of most coins, especially ancient or historically important. But if it's been done already I'm not going to stop enjoying something that's cool.

    So, please let's see those repurposed coins, ANYTHING Napoleonic, modern with an ancient God or Goddess, answers to my many questions or whatever you think adds to the experience of all your CT homies
    Shea19, +VGO.DVCKS, Spaniard and 20 others like this.
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  3. fomovore

    fomovore Supporter! Supporter

    Well, she was also the goddess of wisdom and commerce (probably only due to her origin as Athena - it seems to me that the warlike Romans quickly forgot about that side of her).

    PS. I'm guessing it was cast as two separate parts rather than cut in two.
  4. John Conduitt

    John Conduitt Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
  5. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    made out of silver 5 Francs coins, successors of Napoleon I :

    P1150532 (2).JPG P1150531.JPG P1150528.JPG P1150517.JPG P1150522.JPG P1150523.JPG
    DonnaML, Clavdivs, Curtisimo and 10 others like this.
  6. Ryro

    Ryro They call me the 13th Caesar Supporter

    Thank you so much! It IS her! And what an amazing woman:woot: that I'd never heard of.
    Born to a poor Jewish family in Vienna, her born name was Henrietta Kanengeiser. Her family immigrated to the US while she was little.
    She had to drop out of school at 13 to earn for her family after her father died. She started her prolific career running messages at Macy's in 1902
    This dynamo went on to make millions designing jewellery and clothes:greedy:
    A young Lucille Ball modeled for Hattie while trying to make her way as an actress in New York. Carnegie insisted that Lucy die her hair blonde. Ball complied:
    (How did I not notice how FINE Lucy is. You could say, I love Lucy:shame::facepalm:)
    Anyway, she would frequently take trips to Paris, which can be seen not only in the coin type of my keepsake and the one John so kindly share, but she made a bunch of jewellery using world coins and seemed to have an affinity for Bonaparte.
    Here's a few others I found:
    vintage-signed-hattie-carnegie-1940s_1_76e42ac0af326b532888b69e902d9947.jpg 8969341_master.jpg Hattie-Carnegie-Napoleonic-Coins-Statement-Necklace-full-1o-720-e9a5daf8-f.png

    And here's her signature matching the style as on my new picture holder:

    There's so much more to her story, like her creating and designing the Women's Army Corps outfits that they would continue to use for at least the next twenty years (she received the Congressional medal of freedom for this), but here is the link to her wiki page if you would like to learn more
    Anybody have any other Hattie Carnegie items?
  7. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Dombes collector Supporter

    You sure have a keeper here !

    Ryro likes this.
  8. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter Enrich the soldiers...ignore all others

    Very interesting.
    Ryro likes this.
  9. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    LOL, helped my 6 daughters learn to drive... this brought back some hilarious thoughts!!!

    Napoleon Emperor
    AR 2 Francs
    1808-I Limoges mint
    Republic Rev
    Ex: @Cucumbor Who is actually...
    NAPOLEON Reincarnated!!! :D

  10. Sulla80

    Sulla80 one coin at a time Supporter

    Interesting item, @Ryro, here's my "smuggler's coin". Made from 2 coins it is 12.5mm thick so it certainly would not fool anyone if they glance at it. The rest of the coins left in the picture to reduce the impact of your blatant attempt to corrupt the Ancients forum with something that isn't ancient and isn't even a coin - what have you done!
    Still life wi Coins 2.jpg
  11. Ryro

    Ryro They call me the 13th Caesar Supporter

    +VGO.DVCKS likes this.
  12. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    Yes Ryro, thats right. Many pill boxes were made that way.
    I dont understand the use of this rather large ""pill box"", to big for pills,
    maybe a black powder flask ?

    Made in the same way:

    P1140766.JPG P1140775.JPG
  13. DonnaML

    DonnaML Supporter! Supporter

    For anyone who hasn't already seen my original British "Surrender of Napoleon After Waterloo" medal in silver that @Ryro mentioned (I've posted it before), here it is. It's one of the half-dozen medals I still have, and the only one in silver, from the James Mudie series of 40 medals, struck in 1820, commemorating British victories during the Napoleonic Wars (I once had about 35 of them, but sold most):

    Great Britain, Surrender of Napoleon, 1815 (struck 1820). Obv. Bust of Napoleon right, uniformed; NAPOLEON BONAPARTE; signature below / Rev. British man of war Bellerophon, in full sail, with Imperial Eagle on flag staff; Napoleon stands on quarterdeck with right hand inside coat; another ship beyond; SURRENDERED TO H.B.M.S. BELLEROPHON CAPT. MAITLAND. Exergue: XV JULY. MDCCCXV; signatures below. By T. Webb/N.G.A Brenet. AR 41 mm., 38.8 g. Eimer 1078, Mudie 37, BHM 884, Bramsen 1691. Ex. Spink Auction 136, Oct. 7, 1999, Lot 992.

    Napoleon-Bellerephon (Mudie 37) Obv 2.jpg

    Napoleon-Bellerephon (Mudie 37) Rev. 1.jpg

    Although I do have several French Napoleonic medals, this is the only one I have with a reverse design directly based on Roman coins:

    France AR Medal Peace of Luneville, 1801 Artist: Bertrand Andrieu; minted by Paris Mint. Obv.: Bust of Bonaparte, head bare, facing right; around, BONAPARTE PREMIER CONSUL DE LA REPUBLIQUE FRAN.SE.; on bust truncation, ANDRIEU F./ Rev.: Pax standing left with olive branch in raised right hand and cornucopia held in left arm; around, PAIX DE LUNEVILLE; in exergue, LE XX. PLUVOISE / AN IX [= 9 Feb. 1801]; on ground left in small letters, ANDRIEU F. Reference: Laskey XXI. 41 mm, 38.74 g.

    Napoleon-Peace of Luneville Obv. 1.jpg

    Nspoleon - Peace of Luneville Rev. 1.jpg
  14. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    Moving from the sublime to the ridiculous, a while back, someone on UK ebay listed some larger coin of Haile Selassie that was made into a 'snuff box.' ...Would've been on the small side for one purpose that came to mind.
    (...Theological disclaimer: I like to paraphrase "Haile-I [...'eye'] Selassie-I" as "Highly-I Unlikely-I." Doubt there are many Rasta coin collectors out there to offend. ...Still have to like the music, not least for the Biblical literacy of the lyrics (...always from the King James). ...Yike, this was self-indulgent; Sorry.)
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
    Sulla80, DonnaML and Ryro like this.
  15. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

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