The French King who never ruled

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by ancientcoinguru, Jun 12, 2017.

  1. ancientcoinguru

    ancientcoinguru Supporter! Supporter

    I have collected ancient Greek and Roman coins for years, but recently added Byzantine and medieval to my collecting interests. I try not to buy anything minted after 1500, but I could not resist this coin. I am glad to have the CT World Forum, so I can share it.:)

    France 1589…

    When the question of the succession of the childless King Henri III arose in 1589, the Cardinal Charles de Bourbon, as the eldest (Catholic) member of the House of Bourbon, was chosen by the Catholic League as heir in preference to the Protestant Henri of Navarre.

    There was only one rather major difficulty -- Charles was in prison for the assassination of the Duke of Guise! This did not deter the Catholic League, who proclaimed him the legitimate king of France (Charles X) on March 5, 1590. Coins were struck in his name by the League, and my coin was one of the coins minted. But Charles never left prison, never ruled as King of France, and died in prison on May 9, 1590.
    Charles X.png
    Charles X
    FRANCE, Paris (1590 A) Catholic League Coinage
    AR Quart d'ecu 8.87gm - 30 mm
    Obv: Crowned arms flanked by II's. Rev: Cross
    Reference: DuP 1177

    If anyone has more Catholic League coinage, please share, I would love to see them!

    Feel free to post anything related...other coins minted in France, or perhaps coins minted in the late 1500s from other nations.
    MasterSamurai, jj00, Jwt708 and 17 others like this.
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  3. gregarious

    gregarious E Pluribus Unum

    that's a very interesting story and coin!
    ancientcoinguru and spirityoda like this.
  4. scottishmoney

    scottishmoney Buh bye

    I'd guess it is a bit presumptuous to pretend to a throne whence you are imprisoned.
    Jwt708, Stork and ancientcoinguru like this.
  5. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Thanks for the post & writeup, may get one in a few weeks.
    ancientcoinguru likes this.
  6. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Pretender issues are always interesting.

    I think some of my Jacobite Scottish ancestors might've fought for Bonnie Prince Charlie at Culloden.
    ancientcoinguru likes this.
  7. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Cool story, and cool coin.

    Out of curiosity, why do you not buy anything after 1500? Is that a special date, for some reason? Is there some major political event that prompts that cutoff? It just seems like a random date to me.
    ancientcoinguru likes this.
  8. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    interesting indeed, cool coin and story ACG!
    ancientcoinguru likes this.
  9. Dirk D

    Dirk D Active Member

    Great story to a wonderful coin. That's precisely what makes numismatics so interesting.
    ancientcoinguru likes this.
  10. ancientcoinguru

    ancientcoinguru Supporter! Supporter

    When I decided to collect medieval coins, I started looking for a cutoff date (I cannot collect everything). So I asked the ancient dealers at the FUN show how they dated medieval, the most common answer was 476 AD - end of 15th century. I also found several websites, such as this one and 1500 seemed to be their cutoff date as well. And when I looked at VAuctions, they put medievals in this category: "World Coins - Medieval (pre-1500).

    So, I choose 1500 as my cutoff date. I am sure others use as different date.
  11. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Gotcha, I guess that makes sense. I didn't know if that corresponded to the end of a certain empire or nation, or the rise of a certain influential country.

    I've heard some call the fall of the Byzantine empire the end of the medieval period, which sort of makes sense to me.

    I've also talked to some who find that line somewhat arbitrary - they make a cut-off based more on technology. So, hammered coins are collected as "medieval" and when countries generally converted to milled coinage that was considered "modern".

    Its an interesting discussion, but I'm glad you've found what works for you.
  12. ancientcoinguru

    ancientcoinguru Supporter! Supporter

    I've only been collecting medieval for less than a year, so I may change my cutoff when I become more knowledgeable. I have no hammered coins, but would like one, so I might investigate your cut-off by technology idea.

    Thanks, very interesting, I would be interested in hearing what others think.
  13. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Every single coin in your collection is hammered, if you collect what you say you do. The coin in your OP is hammered.

    Hammered refers to the method of manufacture: the coiner literally had a handheld die (the hammer die), put the planchet down on an anvil (the anvil die), and then thwacked it with a hammer. Sometimes he'd hit it more than once to bring up all the detail.

    Every single ancient coin was made this way, and every single medieval coin was made this way (with the exception of cast coinage).
  14. ancientcoinguru

    ancientcoinguru Supporter! Supporter

    Gosh, I have so much to learn! :shame:

    I certainly knew how ancients were minted (struck or cast) but have never heard anyone refer to them as hammered. Quite interesting, thanks!
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