The Fairmont Collection/Hoard

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by GoldFinger1969, Aug 16, 2022.

  1. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    Does anybody have any information on the ORIGINS of this collection ? Stacks-Bowers is having another auction on these coins next week.

    I have never heard about the ORIGIN of this hoard -- starting with the name "Fairmont" and how it applies -- other than it apparently is an amalgamation of various bank hoards from Europe (or maybe 1 big bank hoard, not sure).

    "Collection" implies 1 person and intent to collect specific coins; a hoard to me is more random. I've heard both terms used in regards to Fairmont. Doug Winter has written extensively in his CoinWeek columns on this collection over the years.

    The Fairmont Collection/Hoard is thousands of gold coins and I believe dozens (maybe hundreds) of Double Eagles (mostly Liberty's but some Saints). Bulk of the coins appear to be smaller gold coins including Eagles, Half Eagles, Quarter Eagles, etc.

    Anybody know more about this collection/hoard ? Anybody buy any Fairmont coins ?

    My understanding is lots of key dates have been found but in mostly AU and low-MS grades. But the Double Eagle supply from Fairmont did lower prices for a few dates the last 2-4 years or so.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2022
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  3. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

  4. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

  5. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

  6. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

  7. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    Thanks, Treashunt !! :cigar:
     
  8. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank


    any time, amazing hoard.
     
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  9. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

    @Treashunt for the "let me google that for you, you lazy sod" win!!!
     
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  10. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    I found lots of information -- mostly Doug Winter columns -- but nothing on the ORIGINS of the hoard itself.

    Virtually all of them talked about the contents, not where they came from.

    I'm hitting Treashunts links now........
     
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  11. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    Ok, here's what Winter wrote:

    "....this massive group—likely containing tens of thousands++ of coins—consists of eagles and double eagles dated as early as 1850 and as late as the 1920s. Known as the Fairmont Collection, these coins derive from an overseas bank and they likely have been off the market for 75 to 125+ years."

    So....it's much larger than I thought (one of the larges Hoards by pieces EVER).....it says they came from AN overseas bank (implies 1 bank).....and they were off the market for 75-125 years which means these coins were NOT known when they appeared which makes sense. Needless to say, they are all ungraded.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2022
  12. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    Very interesting:

    "...As recently as a few years ago, an EF45 1857-S double eagle was a $2,000 coin. Today, it is worth $1,500 and the coins which are available are—for the most part—exceptionally nice."

    NOTE: This was written in May 2019 when gold was about $1,500. The "few years ago" price for gold would have been $1,300 - $1,600. I presume this coin tracks the gold price if not 1-for-1.
     
  13. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    But-but-but you should never buy raw coins, because if a desirable coin isn't in a PCGS or NGC slab, it must mean there's something wrong with it! Right? Right? :rolleyes:
     
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  14. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    I imagine there are more of these "hoards" sitting in European banks somewhere. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the double eagles at least minted mostly for bank transactions? It was way too much money to be useful for the average Joe - imagine today carrying a week's pay around in a single coin.
     
  15. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    Well, unless counterfeits were in a European bank for decades, I guess they are OK. The only risk would be in the sellers overgrading it themselves because they want more $$$ for the coins because of the "Fairmont" moniker.

    I wouldn't be afraid of a counterfeit there, esp. with SB selling them. I just wonder compared to existing non-Fairmont coins, how much of a premium they will sell for (or ask for).
     
  16. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    Historically, there were TONS of Double Eagles overseas -- savvy dealers had full-time people like Paul Wittle scouring Swiss, French, and other European banks looking for Double Eagles.

    That's where the bulk of today's Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles came from....Europe ! They escaped the melt-downs of the 1930's. The coins started to come back here in the 1950's and they turned some of the key rarity rankings upside down. The coins continued to come over in large quantities up through the mid-1970's as I understand it. Once you had the rise in gold run its course, you pretty much got most of the low-haning fruit.

    That's why the volume of coins here is so suprising and makes me wonder if it wasn't a few banks and/or some wealthy individuals who held their coins personally but then had them included in this "Fairmont" hoard. Ya never know....:D

    It's one thing to miss a SDB of a dozen or a few dozen coins. It's quite another to not have talk/knowledge over the years about a stash of TENS OF THOUSANDS of gold coins. At least it seems a bit strange to me.
     
  17. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    Would there be any risk, if, as an example, more than one Dealer/Seller was involved in this Fairmont discovery, and more than one Dealer/Seller was involved with the purchase of this discovery, and more than one Dealer/Seller divided the discovered coins and one or more of the Dealers/Sellers submitted their coins for TPG evaluation and other Dealers/Sellers decided to offer their coins without a formal TPG evaluation?
     
  18. Sting 60

    Sting 60 Well-Known Member

    I have been always curious of how many coins is considered a "hoard."
     
  19. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    Good questions....the immediate FEAR is that if you even have 1 or 2 coins in a key date where the existing population is single digits, you could crater the market price.

    But as these coins seem to be mostly AU or low-MS.....and most of the Top Pop coins are usually mid-60's or higher...they really don't compete. Sort of like the 1857-S SSCA, these lower-graded (when they are graded :D) coins will probably EXPAND the buying unverse to folks who couldn't afford the coins before.

    Doug Winter seems to say that a few coins, lower quality than the existing graded/ungraded population, can be absorbed by the market. The fear is a significant % of a key date, like 20-50% or something like that.

    Dealers and the sellers may want to keep the quantities and specific coins a secret...but word leaks out. And eventually, dealers and collectors who know that a coin that normally shows up 1 or 2 times a year is suddenly showing up 5 or 6 or 7 times a year.....they notice.
     
  20. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Supporter! Supporter

    Mini-hoards can just be 1 person's SDB stash. The Beverly Hills Bank Hoard which had a few coins from the Saint-Gaudens years of 1929-32 (I forget what years) is considered a hoard and I think it was single-digits.

    The Spencer Marsh Hoard of 1932 Saints -- 50 coins -- were purchased by a Newark bank executive direct from the Treasury.

    Irrespective of size...any group of previously unknown (usually ungraded) coins can be considered a hoard.
     
  21. LakeEffect

    LakeEffect Average Circulated Supporter

    I hesitate to post this because it's supposed to be a secret, but I have it on good authority the coins were found in the cup holder...

    Ford_Fairmont.jpg
     
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