Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
The evolution of the Yan State knife coin
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="AnYangMan, post: 3167305, member: 87271"]An excellent topic that sadly went underappreciated! Your picture urged me to make one of my own:</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]814389[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>As you can see, I don’t have an extremely broad pointed one, and I am severely lacking in the early Ming knives department (you have no less than three of this extremely rare variety!). The middle one is intresting however: it is one of the only ones I have seen where the inscription (<i>Liu </i>六<i> = </i>six<i>) i</i>s on the reverse, instead of on the obverse. Also note the misplacement of the mould. By the way, I’ve got two more knives underway from our mutal friend. Anyway, one interesting thing to look at in both our pictures is the thickness of the handle and the variation you see between different types of pointed knives.</p><p><br /></p><p>One thing to keep in mind however is that this evolution is by no means a unilinear one, and that the typology above represents a general trend over time, not definitive way of relatively dating them. Assigning rough dates to certain types (introduction of rim on the blade, etc.) should be possible, but saying knife 3 is older than 4 is not necessarily true. It is generally accepted that we are not dealing with as single production centre and likewise more than a single issuing entity as well. Emura in his recent study (which is sadly in Japanese, I must admit to having only read the summarised English version) makes a great case for a private mercantile origin for the initial phase of straight knife production, with the Yan state beginning production in the latter stage of the evolution and slowly phasing out the earlier ones, until they began the production of Ming knife somewhere around 400/350 BC-ish. One interesting thing to also note (I apologise for the terrible quality):</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]814374[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>Each square represents a significant hoard find (no single finds included sadly). The huge quantity of these pointed knives in Yan-state territory makes sense, but note the large amount found in Qi territory. As you mentioned, a state that would later be responsible for issuing the large Qi-knives (including your amazing 4-character Qi Knife. Man, I love that specimen), whose early economy seems to also have revolved around pointed knives. Sadly, no analysis of the exact type of pointed knife is given.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Hate to be that guy, but the state of <i>Zhao</i> 趙 instead of <i>Zhou</i> 周 (why do you keep forgetting my favourite state? <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />). These straight knives were mainly cast in two large Zhao cities, <i>Bairen </i>柏人 and the capital <i>Handan </i>邯郸, both major trading hubs, well within Zhao state territory. The are found in Zhao state territory at often times, but are more frequently found together with Ming knives. Interstate trade anyone? I have a couple of these straight knives. They range from completely straight with a straight tip to a rather curved back and circular tip. The bottom one has the same 'Reinforced ridge' you mention, but also notice the distinctly almond-shaped hole that evolves.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]814380[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Nice specimen! Yours seems to be a curved variety of <i>Bu</i>卜.</p><p><br /></p><p>Kind regards,</p><p><br /></p><p>Mika[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="AnYangMan, post: 3167305, member: 87271"]An excellent topic that sadly went underappreciated! Your picture urged me to make one of my own: [ATTACH=full]814389[/ATTACH] As you can see, I don’t have an extremely broad pointed one, and I am severely lacking in the early Ming knives department (you have no less than three of this extremely rare variety!). The middle one is intresting however: it is one of the only ones I have seen where the inscription ([I]Liu [/I]六[I] = [/I]six[I]) i[/I]s on the reverse, instead of on the obverse. Also note the misplacement of the mould. By the way, I’ve got two more knives underway from our mutal friend. Anyway, one interesting thing to look at in both our pictures is the thickness of the handle and the variation you see between different types of pointed knives. One thing to keep in mind however is that this evolution is by no means a unilinear one, and that the typology above represents a general trend over time, not definitive way of relatively dating them. Assigning rough dates to certain types (introduction of rim on the blade, etc.) should be possible, but saying knife 3 is older than 4 is not necessarily true. It is generally accepted that we are not dealing with as single production centre and likewise more than a single issuing entity as well. Emura in his recent study (which is sadly in Japanese, I must admit to having only read the summarised English version) makes a great case for a private mercantile origin for the initial phase of straight knife production, with the Yan state beginning production in the latter stage of the evolution and slowly phasing out the earlier ones, until they began the production of Ming knife somewhere around 400/350 BC-ish. One interesting thing to also note (I apologise for the terrible quality): [ATTACH=full]814374[/ATTACH] Each square represents a significant hoard find (no single finds included sadly). The huge quantity of these pointed knives in Yan-state territory makes sense, but note the large amount found in Qi territory. As you mentioned, a state that would later be responsible for issuing the large Qi-knives (including your amazing 4-character Qi Knife. Man, I love that specimen), whose early economy seems to also have revolved around pointed knives. Sadly, no analysis of the exact type of pointed knife is given. Hate to be that guy, but the state of [I]Zhao[/I] 趙 instead of [I]Zhou[/I] 周 (why do you keep forgetting my favourite state? ;)). These straight knives were mainly cast in two large Zhao cities, [I]Bairen [/I]柏人 and the capital [I]Handan [/I]邯郸, both major trading hubs, well within Zhao state territory. The are found in Zhao state territory at often times, but are more frequently found together with Ming knives. Interstate trade anyone? I have a couple of these straight knives. They range from completely straight with a straight tip to a rather curved back and circular tip. The bottom one has the same 'Reinforced ridge' you mention, but also notice the distinctly almond-shaped hole that evolves. [ATTACH=full]814380[/ATTACH] Nice specimen! Yours seems to be a curved variety of [I]Bu[/I]卜. Kind regards, Mika[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
The evolution of the Yan State knife coin
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...