The End of the Roman Senate ?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Clavdivs, Aug 13, 2021.

  1. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    I really enjoyed reading the responses to @JayAg47 simple question regarding the last use of the titles Caesar and Augustus on coins... very informative thread. A simple question with complex answers.

    So I thought I would ask a couple of straight up questions of my own:

    1) When was the Roman Senate last referred to on coins? For instance the "Senatus Consulto" or SC.. or perhaps in another manner?

    2)When did the Roman Senate last sit? I wonder who turned off the lights (or blew out the candles) on the way out... and when :)?


    Adding a couple of cool coins:

    upload_2021-8-13_22-42-18.png
    Otho AE28, Syria, Antioch Mint
    Obverse: CAE AVG IMP M OTHO, laureate head right.
    Reverse: Large SC within laurel wreath of eight leaves, fastened at top with pellet.

    upload_2021-8-13_22-43-39.png
    Galba AE23, Syria, Antioch Mint
    Obverse: [IMP SER GALBA] CAE AVG, laureate head right.
    Reverse: Large SC within laurel wreath of eight leaves, fastened at top with pellet, between inner circle and outer dotted border.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2021
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  3. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    Here is a coin issued by the Roman Senate in the 13th century. It is inscribed +ROMA CAPITA MVNDI // +SENATVS P Q R.

    Sticklers might argue that this coin does not represent the same body that ruled the Roman Republic but I suspect the 13th century senators who issued it would passionately disagree.

    [Edit] According to Wikipedia, the (original) Roman Senate is last attested historically in 603 as @Finn235 notes, when it acclaimed statues of Phocas and Leontia. The Curia Julia, where the Senate met, was converted into a church in 630. The revived Senate seems to date from the 12th century.

    38692.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2021
  4. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    Gallienus was the last to produce any bronze coins bearing SC at Rome, ostensibly shortly after the capture of his father in 260
    Mine is an earlier issue, from the joint reign of the 250s
    Gallienus sestertius Mars.jpg

    I don't have an example, but some (not most) sestertii of Postumus bear SC on them
    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3258883

    There is a very rare "anonymous" double sestertius showing Gallienus as Genius, and the mysterious inscription INT VRB S C on the reverse - some have proposed that this could have been a special issue by Gallienus, or to mark his death in 268 before Claudius II was ratified, or during the interregnum between the death of Aurelian and the elevation of Tacitus. This is probably the last "Roman" coin to feature SC on it.
    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=187668

    Aurelian issued "sestertii" but there is no SC anywhere on them, indicating that they may actually be medallions.
    Aurelian AE coin sestertius or as_compress82.jpg

    When bronze was reintroduced by Diocletian's reforms, no pretense of obtaining senatorial approval was needed.

    Fast forward over 250 years later, when Rome was ruled by Barbarians but the Senate was somehow still around and ceremoniously "functioning" - the Ostrogoth king Theodahad apparently found a nice old Flavian sestertius and used it as his inspiration for a new "sestertius", SC and all.

    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=206929

    Justinian preserved the ancient Senate when he retook Rome, but it slowly fizzled out and disappeared sometime after 603, which is the last recorded mention of the Senate. No byzantine coins bear SC on them, by the way!
     
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  5. ValiantKnight

    ValiantKnight Well-Known Member

    As @Finn235 mentioned, some Ostrogothic bronze coinage of the 6th century had S-C on them, such as my decanummium of King Athalaric.

    Athalaric, Ostrogothic Kingdom
    AE decanummium
    Obv: INVICT-A ROMA, Roma helmeted, facing right
    Rev: D N ATHAL-ARICVS, Athalaric, in military outfit, standing, holding spear and shield, S-C across fields, X in left field
    Mint: Rome
    Date: 526-534 AD
    Ref: BMC 69, COI 85b

    upload_2021-8-14_0-1-11.jpeg
     
  6. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Very interesting question. And ironically the SC on your two coins doesn't refer to the senate. They refer to the place the coin originated.
    Here are a few early emperial SCs back when the senate thought they had a voice:
    IMG_4420(1).jpg 1603051979179620179676817033674-removebg-preview.png share1969901119046581566.png IMG_0891.PNG IMG_5470.jpg
    share2114486028569409795.png
     
  7. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    Well thank you - had to look that up: Syria Coele.
    Always learning....


    upload_2021-8-14_0-56-17.png
    Tiberius AE As
    Restoration issue by Titus
    Rome, 80 AD
    Obv: TI CAESAR DIVI AVG F AVGVST IMP VIII ; Bare head of Tiberius left.
    Rev: IMP T CAES DIVI VESP F AVG REST around large SC.
     
  8. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    WIKIPEDIA.. if anyone is interested on the end of the Senate... if you have other sources or information please add...:

    Senate in the West:
    After the fall of the Western Roman Empire, the senate continued to function under the Germanic chieftain Odoacer, and then under Ostrogothic rule. The authority of the senate rose considerably under barbarian leaders, who sought to protect the institution. This period was characterized by the rise of prominent Roman senatorial families, such as the Anicii, while the senate's leader, the princeps senatus, often served as the right hand of the barbarian leader. It is known that the senate successfully installed Laurentius as pope in 498, despite the fact that both King Theodoric and Emperor Anastasius supported the other candidate, Symmachus.

    The peaceful coexistence of senatorial and barbarian rule continued until the Ostrogothic leader Theodahad found himself at war with Emperor Justinian I and took the senators as hostages. Several senators were executed in 552 as revenge for the death of the Ostrogothic king, Totila. After Rome was recaptured by the imperial (Byzantine) army, the senate was restored, but the institution (like classical Rome itself) had been mortally weakened by the long war. Many senators had been killed and many of those who had fled to the east chose to remain there, thanks to favorable legislation passed by Emperor Justinian, who, however, abolished virtually all senatorial offices in Italy. The importance of the Roman senate thus declined rapidly.

    In 578 and again in 580, the senate sent envoys to Constantinople. They delivered 3,000 pounds (1,360 kilograms) of gold as a gift to the new emperor, Tiberius II Constantinus, along with a plea for help against the Lombards, who had invaded Italy ten years earlier. Pope Gregory I, in a sermon from 593, lamented the almost complete disappearance of the senatorial order and the decline of the prestigious institution.

    It is not known exactly when the Roman senate disappeared in the West, but it appears to have been in the early seventh century - it is last attested in 603, when the Gregorian register records that it acclaimed new statues of Emperor Phocas and Empress Leontia,and in 630 the Curia Julia was converted into a church (Sant'Adriano al Foro) by Pope Honorius I, which suggests that the Senate had ceased to meet there some time previously.

    [​IMG]
    The Palazzo Senatorio, originally built to house the revived Senate during the Roman Commune period.
    The title senator did continue to be used in the Early Middle Ages (it was held by Crescentius the Younger (d.998) and in its feminine form senatrix by Marozia (d.937), to give two prominent examples) but in this period it appears to have been regarded as a title of nobility and no longer indicated membership of an organized governing body.

    In 1144, the Commune of Rome attempted to establish a government modelled on the old Roman Republic in opposition to the temporal power of the higher nobles (in particular the Frangipani family) and the pope. It constructed a new Senate House (the Palazzo Senatorio ) for itself on the Capitoline Hill, apparently in the mistaken belief that this was the site of the ancient Senate House.

    Most of our sources state that there were 56 senators in the revived senate, and modern historians have therefore interpreted this to indicate that there were four senators for each of the fourteen regiones of Rome. These senators, the first real senators since the 7th century, elected as their leader Giordano Pierleoni, son of the Roman consul Pier Leoni, with the title patrician, since the term consul had been deprecated as a noble styling.

    The Commune came under constant pressure from the papacy and the Holy Roman Emperor during the second half of the twelfth century. From 1192 onwards the popes succeeded in reducing the 56-strong senate down to a single individual, styled Summus Senator, who subsequently became the head of the civil government of Rome under the pope's aegis.[41] Between 1191 and 1193, this was a certain Benedetto called Carus homo or carissimo.

    Senate in the East:
    Main article: Byzantine Senate
    The senate continued to exist in Constantinople, although it evolved into an institution that differed in some fundamental forms from its predecessor. Designated in Greek as synkletos, or assembly, the Senate of Constantinople was made up of all current or former holders of senior ranks and official positions, plus their descendants. At its height during the 6th and 7th centuries, the Senate represented the collective wealth and power of the Empire, on occasion nominating and dominating individual emperors.

    In the second half of the 10th century a new office, proëdrus (Greek: πρόεδρος), was created as head of the senate by Emperor Nicephorus Phocas. Up to the mid-11th century, only eunuchs could become proëdrus, but later this restriction was lifted and several proëdri could be appointed, of which the senior proëdrus, or protoproëdrus (Greek: πρωτοπρόεδρος), served as the head of the senate. There were two types of meetings practised: silentium, in which only magistrates currently in office participated and conventus, in which all syncletics (Greek: συγκλητικοί, senators) could participate. The Senate in Constantinople existed until at least the beginning of the 13th century, its last known act being the election of Nicolas Canabus as emperor in 1204 during the Fourth Crusade.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2021
  9. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    Many years ago I have bought out of curiosity this coin, thinking it's a crusader coin or something similar.
    upload_2021-8-15_14-15-10.png
    Papal State, Senate of Rome, Italy, 12th - 14th Century A.D. Billon denaro.
    obverse SENATVS P Q R, comb, S flanked by crescent and star above.
    reverse ROMA CAPVD M, cross pattée, pellets in 1st and 3rd quarters .
    Biaggi 2119

    Quite interesting little coin.

    The oldest I have would be these 2 from Augustus
    (7 BC)
    upload_2021-8-15_14-19-28.png

    upload_2021-8-15_14-20-45.png
    Issuers M. Salvius Otho and P. Lurius Agrippa
     
  10. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    If I am not mistaken the SPQR still appears on manhole covers on the streets of Rome. If so, just think of them as extra large sesterces.
     
  11. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    A Gallienus and Postumus with SC....

    sest_gal1.jpg

    sest_gal2.jpg

    postsest1.jpg

    postsest2.jpg
     
  12. Julius Germanicus

    Julius Germanicus Well-Known Member

    The final use of the "SC" on roman coinage occured on the last Sestertii struck at the Rome mint in 263 A.D.:

    Bildschirmfoto 2021-08-15 um 17.58.56.png

    CORNELIA SALONINA AVG - Diademed and draped bust of Salonina right, her hair in ridges and looped in plait on neck and up back of head
    PVDICITIA SC - Pudicitia standing left, drawing out her veil with right hand and holding transverse scepter in left
    Sestertius, Rome 262
    11,64 gr / 27,98 mm
    Göbl 490y
     
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  13. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    LOL, I would really enjoy watching you roll one of those into a shop to buy something! :D
     
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