The Elderly and Coin Theft...

You're not the one who stands to get sued if the image owner decides to pursue it.

 

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While I agree in principle, in actuality they really can't. It is no greater risk than and other image on the website.
In fact it is less risk since the image is degradatated and fair use. At worst, they can only get a DMCA take down notice.

 

I’m sure the number of lawsuits of people suing users of bulletin boards due to re-posting of an image is a nice round zero. This seems more punitive than it was grounded in reality. I would love to know if you’ve even received one cease-and-desist letter from a posters photo triggering the response from the photos owner.

 

https://www.publicdomainpictures.ne...08&picture=marine-bird-digging-for-sand-crabs

 

actually I can't. Your software won't permit the edit. I replaced it at its source with an image with a creative commons sharable license, but the proxy server won't shake it either.

 

Straw man.

 

Since the post was directed at me, I will state that while I agree with you, and is why I responded with Straw man to the jeffB post, the thrust of my post is simple: I detest abuse of authority at all levels.

 

Right of course.

Fair Use is not a copyright infringement. The original image was much larger, more detailed and in color. I did exactly what was recommended by the courts in making fair use of the image. I degraded it and used it in a specific context.

So, please don't accuse me of doing something I didn't do.

Regardless, the site is privately owned and can make whatever provisions they want in order to protect themselves and enact DMCA provisions for copyright. The request to take down the image was fair enough. The moral quid pro quo, though is just wrong.

Copyright infringement is a civil matter and is not theft. It also doesn't get people SHOT which the selling of stolen coins in the market actually promotes.

So there is no inconsistency at all because there is no parallel.

The reason why the safe harbor provisions where written into the DMCA was exactly to protect internet forums like this.

Coins, OTOH, continue to be valuable and very portable widgets that are often hard to distinguish from each other by the naked hand and easy to disseminate back into the general market place. That makes coin dealers and collectors class A targets for theft and violence. In fact, the informal structure of the Numismatics trade protects those who deal in stolen merchandise aggravates this situation, and that is not just a moral failure, but it is also dangerous. This is the 21st Century and under a rational legal context, and with the proper use of technology, this crime can be largely eliminated. The elderly don't have to suffer from this constant threat of having there collections stolen by loved ones and care takers. If coins were protected like copyrighted works, we would be in heaven. In this case, the State of New York has recognized this problem and promotes awareness of it. Comparing that to the use of a degraded image that is protected by copyright, and that was used in a proper manner under fair use provisions, is more than stretching the facts.

While I appreciate the rigorousness of policing the boards and assuring the forum rules are obeyed, and I have no problem with the request to remove the image, I object to the context that you made comparing this with regard to numismatic crime, which is a very serious issue in it's own right, and hangs over the hobby and the trade, whether others agree with the current status quo or not. Furthermore, our private conversations confirm to me that you are a fair minded person and a fine moderator, which makes me even more inclined to remove the offending post. I just couldn't do it because the forum times out my ability to make the requested edit.

 

Just waiting to hear the next scare tactic. Is there a limit to how far you are willing to go. For crymony sakes get over it! You didn't have photos, you didn't have proof of ownership, receipts and the cops had no recourse to get your coins back. heck they were not important enough that you didn't even k now they were gone for a month. It is foolish what yo are trying to do to this hobby. You want to add red tape to any dealings, buying or selling because you were taken. Sorry that theft happened to you and your family, But that is life, especially when you don't take the necessary precautions with valuable items.

 

Straw man again.
You are again avoiding the salient point of my comment and opinion....You completely ignored the comments in this thread by members that called for the OP to shut up, be silent, take it somewhere else, and admonishing the member via comments about mental status and family issues....all in a manner that is exclusionary and an example of Ideology of Division (and you particularly know EXACTLY what I am referring to).....and you ignored this rudeness and did not post one word about this type of attitude (maybe read forum guidelines), to the point of placing importance of a photo of a photo of a photo, AFTER your belittling "Thou Shalt Not Steal" post.

You ignored the basic responsibility of a Moderator, equity and inclusion of all members.

The OP posted about coins. The OP posted about a problem in the hobby that is wide spread and known and given very little importance, overall. Why should this be objectionable, and why do YOU consider it is acceptable (which is tacit agreement with the members telling the OP to shut up and leave), and what is the hypocrisy (which is again opining a tacit agreement with the members telling the OP to shut up and leave), and what is the groundless absurdity? It is a phrase used to convey superiority of position....YOUR position....and is used as a defense of your failure of inclusion and defending ALL members equally.

You state your agreement in another manner....your description of the 'offense" as railing "ad nauseum" about coin theft.

My passing comment concerning that particular subject, although it has nothing to do with my position of your questionable moderation methodology, is use a simple exercise: Google "coin collections theft 2020 in U.S". 26 of the first 30 links are coin theft, the other 4 are Bitcoin and one is 2021. Then research the FBI Crime database of same, and what is astounding is the number of ACTIVE cases being investigated by the FBI, for the simple reason that there is suspicion by local authority that the coins may have been moved across State lines, or are suspected to be a Federal Civil Rights violation (because the victim is ELDERLY). 2,106 of the 4,319 ACTIVE investigations are age related civil rights cases.

The point? The OP has a point, whether you agree or not.

The question is (again): did YOU, as a Moderator, treat the member fairly? Did YOU, as a Moderator, consider that it is not acceptable to tell another member to shut up and leave the Forum? Did YOU, as a Moderator, state that members can utilize the tool provided.... toggle the 'ignore" option?

Yet you are quick to admonish a perceived infraction via a photo of a photo of a photo, which is very questionable as to any leagl danger to the Board.

Yes, my opinion is your Moderation priorities are questionable.

 

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/what-mintmark-do-you-see.331205/page-4#post-3317329

 

I don’t know how much I trust the threats of that specific poster. I’m absolutely not convinced that the ranting of one member who’s known for ranting is accurate with the fact that the notice was actually sent. But fair enough

 

Pointing out the flaws in an argument that someone has and forcing them to take down a picture in a smug and derogatory way are two very different things just apologize to the guy and Move on. Your post was not appropriate

 

I support @ToughCOINS and the moderators

Charley does make some good points, and I believe it's always good to have somebody pointing out viewpoints that are different than the crowd. However, while fair and equal moderation on anonymous forums should be the goal, can that really happen? IMO, CT has the most even handed moderation of any of the forums I frequent (both numismatic and other topics)

Could the moderators have handled this differently? IMO, yes. But we don't have access to what happens behind the scenes. It sounds like there may have been some PMs prior to the post. If there is an issue, I'm sure that Peter and Doug will address it with all the mods (if it hasn't been addressed already)

Overall, I think something needed to be done. The OP continues to strongly push his very narrow opinion of fixing the problem, and many members have opined that there are other options to be considered. Maybe ignoring it and hoping it will go away will work. Or maybe not.

Just my opinion on the subject

 

Yeah - well, that just reinenforces that I wrote accept the silly threat that he would own cointalk. There is a specific guideline for penalties for the use of copyrighted works and part of that calculation involves the comercial damage that is done as part of compensation. So the poster is smart enough to know he can't sue, and he has to send a DMCA takedown notice. There is a specific procedure involved in replying. Then he could take it to court if the site refused to comply or answer the DMCA takedown notice. THEN he has to reply to the response. And then, if they disagree, he can take the matter to court. If he would win in court, not that Peter should go to court over a stupid image, the copyright holder would be lucky to win $50 and a court order to remove the copyrighted work.

The DMCA allows for higher penalties on a per incident basis. The courts generally will not pursue that without a demonstration of a pattern of abuse.... etc etc etc.

Anyway, I would take it down if I could. But I can't. But you did just prove my point.

Strangely enough, the courts refuse to be dragged into long drawn out disputes over posts on website forums. And the law gives websites like cointalk safe harbor from arbitrary prosecution.

As I wrote:

Copyright infringement is a civil matter and is not theft. It also doesn't get people SHOT which the selling of stolen coins in the market actually promotes.

In fact, the informal structure of the Numismatics trade protects those who deal in stolen merchandise aggravates this situation, and that is not just a moral failure, but it is also dangerous.

https://www.copyright.gov/dmca/

 

it’s clear you have a specific focus on theft of coins. Some here seem to have an idea you are obsessed. Honestly my opinion is you are definitely only posting on coin crime. Personally as long as coins are focal involved I’m good. If others have a problem about it they can choose not to read your posts. I don’t think you need to be personally insulted. And seeing as how most of your threads get pages of responses makes me think your threads are contributing to the site.

the legal threats are a joke. No one is actually going to sue cointalk for one picture posted. How many web sites are generating content with copyright violating posts and you are telling me this is enough to go to court? While technically possible to go to court unless you start defaming people nothing here is going to court

 

Do you actually run any web sites yourself? Out of your own pocket?

I didn't especially expect Kurt to follow through on that threat, either. But it's not my site, not my pockets, and I certainly wasn't going to second-guess Peter.

 

I think that most get confused on the moral end of the conversation.
I am guilty of it myself, The dissing disregard and dis respect. That is the handle that most folks miss. Anyone that has to read all the negative quibble that gets said over these threads is either in to get rid of aggression. Some are just plain argumentative. Or, just simply in need of attention, yet they cause a stir. I am unsure why? @cplradar do you keep such negative threads alive?

We all get the content and understand your need to talk about it. When does it get old for you to hear the same rhetoric over and over

PS. We outlasted VKurt.
Some how you think that you are different.
The community is trying to speak to you, but you aren't listening.