the best 64 kennedy

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by gianni, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    I think you're missing my point. The OP wouldn't know the difference between an MS coin and a XF coin, and that is based on all of his previous threads. He never said that the picture he posted was his coin. It probably isn't.

    Chris
     
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  3. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    Absolutely. According to the OP, he has a Zerbe 1921, and the rarest Kennedy SMS in the kingdom. Either he is the next David Hall and Jack Lee combined, or totally full of crap. I know which one I would bet on. lol
     
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  4. Bubbles hehehe

    Bubbles hehehe New Member

    The coin is a good grade from mine opinion but some can reach ms 69
     
  5. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    @gianni is from Italy?
    I think at times there is some loss in translation. I don't believe he said this was his coin.
     
  6. Tim C

    Tim C Active Member

    First, the coin pictured from the OP, I do not believe it is an example of the infamous 1964 SMS (markers and die scratches do not match up).



    Not sure what you mean, the part in the hair was reduced and accents add per Mrs. Kennedy’s request prior to the proof dies being made.


    My favorite 1964 Kennedy (pictured below), 1964-D PCGS MS67+ FS-108 (CONECA DDO-008) Top Pop of 1 / 0.


    1964-D FS-108 (DDO-008).png
     
  7. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

    Proof Accented Hair coins were struck about 2 weeks prior to Mrs. Kennedy's design request.
     
  8. Tim C

    Tim C Active Member


    Negative . . .

    If you read the timeline from the Reminiscences on the Creation of the Kennedy Half Dollar by Gilroy Roberts, you will notice that the trial strikes were shown to Mrs. Kennedy on December 17th who suggested “it would be an improvement if the part in the hair, on the portrait, was less pronounced and more accents were added”.

    Gilroy goes on to write that, “Mrs. Kennedy’s suggestions were carried out on the intermediate size and another trial die was made for the obverse.” On December 27th Roberts flew to West Palm Beach where Secretary Dillon and his wife inspected the new trial strikes.

    The proof dies were not made until after Secretary Dillon inspected the second trial strikes, “It was decided to proceed with tooling up for production.”

    https://www.usmint.gov/learn/histor...ecollection-of-kennedy-half-dollar-production
     
  9. Tim C

    Tim C Active Member

    PDF File . . .
     

    Attached Files:

  10. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

    If this is indeed true, then why do the Accented Hair Halves exist with an appx. mintage of 100,000 examples? There would have been NO Accented Hairs if Mrs. Kennedy's suggestions were carried out on that date.
     
  11. Tim C

    Tim C Active Member


    Both designers of the Kennedy half dollar, Gilroy Roberts and Frank Gasparro, documented / recorded their involvement with the creation of the Kennedy half dollar within months of their production at the request of Eva Adams, the Director of the US Mint. I have no reason to doubt their recollections, they were written within a reasonable time frame while the events were still fresh in their memories.

    As to why the accents were removed from the Proof dies shortly after the start of production is a question we may never learn the answer to. Just speculation on my part, but I wonder if by creating a new master hub to fix the broken serif of the I in LIBERTY, the accents that Mrs. Kennedy had suggested were just omitted from the new master hub by the engraver.

    But getting back to the title of this thread, “The Best 64 Kennedy”. Can anyone imagine locating / documenting either the fist trial strike shown to Mrs. Kennedy and her brother in-law Robert Kennedy or the second trial strike shown to Secretary Dillon showing the execution of the suggestions made by Mrs. Kennedy? Or better yet, both trial strikes?
     
  12. green18

    green18 Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Kripes, I don't want to wade through this..........bottom line or go fish.
     
  13. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

    In truth, the First Kennedy proof strikes were indeed of the accented hair design...Mrs. Kennedy wanted her husbands legacy to be placed on the Half Dollar coin because the Franklin Half was the only US coin minted without the bust of a former President. Mrs. Kennedy approved the design of the Kennedy Half prior to the creation of the first proof dies. The first strikes were the Accented Hair Variety and were rushed into production, however, When She was presented with the coin for her approval, she wished that some changes would be made on the hairline details, which the Mint promptly did, but there were still close to 100,000 accented hair coins which were shipped in proof sets. Bib: Rick Tomaska, author of "A guide book of Franklin and Kennedy Half Dollars" volumes 1,2,and 3.
     
  14. Tim C

    Tim C Active Member


    I guess the question here is: Should you believe someone who hocked a book 40 + years after the fact with no direct knowledge or the two designers that were involved with the project from the beginning and documented the timeline within five months of the start?

    In truth?

    Please explain how the half dollar was chosen by Mrs. Kennedy because the Franklin Half was the only US Coin minted without the bust of a former President. In truth, the half dollar was chosen because in the early 1960’s, the silver dollar did not circulate much in commerce and Mrs. Kennedy did not want to replace Washington on the quarter dollar. Replacing Franklin on the half dollar had nothing to do with him not being a former President.

    The myth that, “when Mrs. Kennedy saw these coins she did not approve some of the design elements in her husband’s hair and recommended changes.” (A Guide Book of FRANKLIN & KENNEDY HALF DOLLARS, by Rick Tomaska pp. 237). From the sense of your post, you are representing this as ‘fact’ when in reality Tomaska qualifies the issue as “The story goes . . .”

    Did Jacqueline Kennedy make suggestions for changes for the portrait of the Half Dollar? Yes, but before any production dies had been tooled and she “felt it would be an improvement if the part in the hair, on the portrait, was less pronounced and more accents were added.”
     
  15. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    This is interesting can you elaborate or add links?
     
  16. Tim C

    Tim C Active Member

    Links are there, look at post #27 and 28. Post #27 is retyped on the Mint's web site and Post # 28 is a PDF file of the original document. . .
     
  17. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Thanks I clicked first unread. it jumped those references.
     
  18. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

    You are full of mis-information...the info I have given here is widely known in the coin community and the members here deserve to know the facts, which I have stated. As for the question of which Kennedy is best, that remains the choice of the collector. My choice is the Accented hair Kennedy in PR69 Ultra Cameo cond. With a pop of only a couple, it may also be one of the most valuable, comparable in price to the SP Kennedy. I'm finished with this conversation for now, and I hope others will elaborate on the subject.
     
  19. Tim C

    Tim C Active Member


    You say that I’m full of misinformation, please elaborate.

    The only thing I have stated on this thread is the ‘historical record’ that you can find in the achieves of the United States Mint, I have even linked the record to this thread so all that you would need is the ability of reading comprehension.

    The questions for people to ask is would Gilroy Roberts know what he is talking about or if it is full of ‘it’? Who was Gilroy Roberts and what would he know about the creation of the Kennedy half dollar? How accurate is Roberts written account of the events surrounding the events / timeline of the production of the Kennedy Half Dollar?

    Just in case people didn’t know, Gilroy Roberts was the Chief Engraver of the United States Mint from 1948 until 1964 and was the designer of the obverse of the Kennedy half dollar. Gilroy Roberts document his involvement in creating the Kennedy half dollar approximately five months after the assassination of President Kennedy while the information was still fresh in his memory.


    According to Gilroy Roberts’ written documentation, part of the timeline is:

    1. December 17, 1963, he accompanied Secretary of the Treasury Dillon to meet with Mrs. Kennedy and Attorney General Robert Kennedy to show them the first trial strikes of the new Kennedy half dollar. Mrs. Kennedy “felt it would be an improvement if the part in the hair, on the portrait, was less pronounced and more accents added” during that meeting.

    2. After the meeting with Mrs. Kennedy, new trial strikes were prepared.

    3. On December 27, 1963, Gilroy Roberts flew to West Palm Beach so that Secretary Dillon and his wife could inspect the new trial strikes and “they both felt that Mrs. Kennedy’s wishes had been complied with . . .” At that time, “it was decided to proceed with tooling up for production.”

    4. December 30, 1963, “The congressional Act authorizing the Kennedy Half Dollar was approved”

    5. “Extreme pressure was exerted to push this program through and by January 2, 1964, Kennedy Half Dollar Proof dies were delivered and our tremendous Proof coin production could get started.”
    “Some minor problems still had to be ironed out for regular production but by January 30, 1964, Denver had started production of regular Half Dollar coinage using the new design.”

    When did Mrs. Kennedy inspect the design of the Kennedy half dollar and what did she suggest? The historical record clearly shows that it was on December 17, 1963, and she wanted the “part in the hair less pronounced and more accents added, all prior to the tooling of the Proof dies. Not the common ‘myth” or as Rick Tomaska puts it as “The story goes . . .” that Mrs. Kennedy wanted the accents removed.

    Chascat, if my information is wrong, please provide a historical document showing the opposite. I understand that some people are not big enough to admit when they are wrong and some will continue to believe the myths put out by others.
     
  20. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

    Regardless of historical records, which are known to be completely bogus in many circumstances from that era, How do you explain the existence of nearly 100,000 AH Kennedys coined in the first weeks of 1964?
     
  21. Tim C

    Tim C Active Member

    Look at post #30, believe I answered your question . . .
     
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