The 1882 O/S Morgan Top 100 Vam or Refuted Over Mint Mark

Pleeese... This from the keyboard of an "expert" die sinker.

 

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Then why haven't you?

If you have compelling proof that is contrary to what I have shown that supports your and Dave Lange's opinion, it's incumbent upon you to try and convince someone that it carries water with something more substantive than bluster.

 

I have explained my opinion w/o bluster. Yet again, IMO you have shown nothing of substance that links the die states. Also, NO ONE who holds the "accepted belief" has demonstrated how a very weak, barely-raised, something that looks like an "S" can become a strong, flush, sharp "S" in a later die state!

I'll bet I could convince a jury of numismatists (not the expert VAM collectors who just accepted what they saw in books) that the EDS/LDS's were unintentionally reversed by numismatists who did not know better at the time.

When I started to become interested in varieties, there was a universally accepted (by the "Flat-Earth" folks) 1869/8 Indian cent. That was quickly corrected. We did it with die sates and crude overlays. IMO, the "O/S" is a similar case that was never tackled and corrected. We'll just need to see what develops. You are a respected numismatist. I'm going to try to get you over to our (Lange and I) side eventually. Then we'll rope in more...

 

Just because you can't understand the proof doesn't mean it isn't proof.

Start by convincing one person here.

 

I'm just trying to wrap my head around the theory that steel is added back to a die as it goes from EDS to LDS. Did they have a micro TIG welder back then?

 

Please don't confuse the issue with an OBVIOUS OBSERVATION.

NOTE: That your observation has not been addressed YET or REFUTED so you and I must not understand that the proof given in other posts is proof enough for the Society of Silver Dollar Collectors and National Silver Dollar Roundtable members.

 

This is telling on myself. Back in the 50's my brother Paul and I worked at plowing, $1 an hour, 60 hours a week. We were rich! Rich for kids in grade school any way. We loved silver dollars and when we found Whitman holders we had a mission. We always converted our pay to silver dollars and started our first collections. It was only then that we learned that there were mints other than blank (Phillie) D and S. O was special. N.O. was where the Texas Navy had hid out to keep O'Sam H. from grabing the ships and selling them. (He hated the Navy) So we wanted our "O"'S to be perfect. We found a couple of O/S and thought they were just messed up O's and traded them back in hoping for nice, perfect ones.

 

I think the argument is that EDS and LDS versions aren't the same dies, not that some progression problem is happening.

 

This was the post I was referring to Dave.

 

Actually, his argument is that the eds & lds should be reversed if you can believe it

 

That is a very good possibility that I first raised in post#29 above.

HOWEVER, @messydesk (an outstanding representative of the Morgan dollar experts) and the VAM guys do not make that distinction and say VAM-3 exists in EDS and LDS; and VAM-4 exists in EDS and LDS. All struck using the same die for each VAM.

If the dies are the same for each of the present VAM's then the "believers" will need to show a die progression where a fairly faint misshaped "S" inside the "O" becomes stronger AS THE DIE IS USED! And as usual, no comments yet to explain how this could happen.

As for me, I think a good start would be to switch the early/late die states while further research is done and some articles are published.

 

If I felt I could rewrite post #19 in words you could understand, I would, but you've made it abundantly clear that it's not possible to do so.

 

Wait, what?

 

Why not give it a try? I should like to understand how something happens during a DIE FAILURE resulting in a sharp, high-relief crossbar of an "S." "Microscopically speaking" die failures, die wear, die damage, die pitting, die fatigue, sunken dies, and die whatever does not become a clear, strong O/S due to ANYTHING outside of the Mint's engraving shop. Then that O/S may deteriorate into a LDS (erroneously called an EDS at present) with use. The original VAM reference got it wrong!

 

@SuperDave You just received one of only two "Best Answers" I ever gave. I'm still giggling

PS SD has me on IGNORE so please pass this on.

 

Here is mine, sorry I don't have a close-up of the mintmark.

 

I have bumped this thread on the request of @Insider

 

He needed help?