Thank God my PCGS Membership is up... who should I use to grade coins instead?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Kevin Farley, May 12, 2021.

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  1. Kevin Farley

    Kevin Farley Active Member

    Does PCGS have a bunch of blind idiots grading coins for them? Sorry if that sounds harsh but seeing some of their slabs with insanely over graded coins in them is infuriating when compared to some of mine and others I've seen that seem under graded. My 1904-O Barber Half Dollar was deemed "Cleaned XF Details", and although I'd say at the least it's AU Details, I wouldn't mind as much if I didn't see this other one graded XF that sold on Heritage that isn't in the same universe as mine. Anyway I'm curious what other grading service to use next?
     

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  3. GH#75

    GH#75 Well-Known Member

    wow. I'd agree, that grade is way off. You should do a GTG to throw people off haha.

    But sometimes, grading companies will have tons of coins to grade, and have to do them faster than normal, which can cause problems like this. Also, is it cleaned? I cant tell from the photos. Sure doesn't look like it from what I see!
     
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  4. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 Casual Collector / error expert "in Training "

    Looks AU details to me . :happy:
     
  5. Kevin Farley

    Kevin Farley Active Member

    Yeah I thought it possibly could be barely cleaned but if it is, it's so minimal I'm frankly blown away they didn't just knock it down a peg and call it good, they're a freaking embarrassment
     
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  6. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    IMHO, yes yours has less wear, but the Heritage example is the nicer, more original coin.
     
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  7. Kevin Farley

    Kevin Farley Active Member

    Here's the best pictures I have of mine until it's shipped back
     

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  8. MIGuy

    MIGuy Supporter! Supporter

    Who should you use? I guess it depends on whether your goal is just to get a fair grade and authenticity from a pro grader or whether your goal is resale / market price. If it's the latter than unfortunately PCGS is it, NGC to a lesser degree of course (NGC for world coins and medals). I have a fair number of graded coins by PCGS, NGC, ANACS and ICG, but had never submitted any until last year, I'm just a collector on the lower end, SLQs are my main thing.

    When I submitted I used ICG for ease of submission (print the simple form and fill it out), price ($10 per coin with Cointalk discount! Plus shipping and insurance of course) and the three week turnaround (or faster on my latest (3rd) submission) works well for me. I also called and spoke with a grader on one occasion, they were very nice and professional. I have been very impressed with the grading on my coins (although not the one medal I sent in, I felt they were unfamiliar with the type). An AU55 Details (lightly cleaned) standing liberty quarter and MS63 FH looked like they were within a grade of each other to me when I bought them raw (based on pictures, not in person examination), I'm learning a lot from the grades I'm getting back about grading which is helping me be more accurate in my assessments. I am curious about people's recent experiences with ANACS myself.
     
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  9. Kevin Farley

    Kevin Farley Active Member

    Appreciate that info, looks like your just the person I needed to talk to lol. I still have a lot to learn too but feel I'm coming around a little. Thought about trying ICG or NGC next but maybe I'll just send an order to each and give them both a shot. I've been with PCGS for a year and sent 7 orders of multiple coins and honestly I'm pretty shocked they're at the top of the pecking order. They must be hooking up friends with favorable grades because from what I've seen they have the most coins that are way off grade
     
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  10. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Using the grading services is great for a dealer who as access to many raw coins. As a dealer you can make a lot of money that way. It's less useful for a collector because usually the number of coins you handle is less.

    When I was dealer, I used to figure on getting back about 80% of the material with grades I thought I would get. The other 20% was divided between "gifts" which were over graded coins and "shafts" when I thought I got less than I deserved. Sometimes it was worth it to get the "shafts" re-regraded, but I usually went to the other service to get it done. I figured that if the grading service gave me "the shaft," they did not deserve more of my money.

    As a collector, I buy the coin in the holder I want. I don't play the grading game any more because there is no upside for me. Therefore grading memberships and the like are of no use to me. I have won grading certificates from the services for my registry set and just let them expire. They are not worth the shipping so far as I'm concerned.
     
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  11. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    The original surfaces on your coin have been stripped. You have admitted that. Once you get a "details grade," the sharpness grade is less important.

    I don't know if it would make much difference if the sharpness grade is EF or AU. It's hard to call something AU after it has been stripped because the AU grade includes the mint surfaces, which are often damaged on a cleaned coin. An EF graded coin can be expected to have traces of mint luster on a EF-45, but usually mint luster is not a part of the EF grade.
     
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  12. Kevin Farley

    Kevin Farley Active Member

    Thanks for that info. I'm kind of half collector half dealer and I'm still learning and am more so using the grading services to know 100% a coin is authentic and also to judge the grade I gave the coin. Once I get more experience I might just nix the grading altogether although a grade does help draw eyes and interest in coins I'm wanting to resell. I bought that barber half for $360 and was hoping to make some decent money off it... thanks PCGS lol
     
  13. Kevin Farley

    Kevin Farley Active Member

    Well in my opinion there's still a decent amount of luster on my coin as well. And I understand your point on the details grade but I disagree, because ultimately it knocks value off the coin and could possibly make it harder to sell etc. When I'm paying for a grade I expect an accurate assessment. Also I've seen plenty of MS examples that have no mint luster and have just been doctored with a tone etc. that PCGS turns a blind eye to. In my opinion cleaned coins aren't black and white. If a coin looks original enough to an extent I think they should just go from AU55 to AU50 or something like that, but I'm sure a lot of people won't agree with me
     
  14. Mac McDonald

    Mac McDonald Well-Known Member

    Short answer...for now: NGC

    They're not perfect, either, but better than PCGS at this time, IMO. Have seen/experienced enough of the Heritage and other VIP connections to/with PCGS to convince me that anonymity doesn't exist there. To some extent it may also be true elsewhere, including NGC, but not anything like PCGS. Not to hi-jack this thread...not my intention...but directly related to these concerns and to be sure, TPG needs a dramatic change before it all blows up in their faces.
     
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  15. Kevin Farley

    Kevin Farley Active Member

    No I'm glad you said that because I've always been curious if that were the case
     
  16. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    That is what I was going to say. Technically the metal might be there, but the cleaning has taken away a part of what should be on an AU coin, the luster. I would be on the fencepost between XF45 and AU50 Cleaned on the coin solely due to lack of luster.
     
  17. Kevin Farley

    Kevin Farley Active Member

    Yeah I can see that. I couldn't see anything less than AU Cleaned if it is in fact cleaned but I think that's pretty solid grade. XF is too low
     
  18. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    There are some heavily worm spots on the reverse and the fact it was cleaned which I think was used as a basis for the XF grade.
     
  19. Kevin Farley

    Kevin Farley Active Member

    On second thought, if this one on PCGS is "MS66+", then mine has got to be an honorary MS60-61. And that's being harsh. I might as well break it open when it gets here and add to that tone it has going on and join the hide my alterations club
     

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    Last edited: May 12, 2021
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  20. Kevin Farley

    Kevin Farley Active Member

    There is on this PCGS MS66+ as well, so I'm pretty sure it's at least 90% strike
     

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  21. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    Point taken, weak strike. I do not have an answer for the XF grade except you were penalized for the cleaning, IMO.
     
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