Tacitus - nice catch on ebay

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Tejas, Apr 16, 2021.

  1. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    I wonder what "exceptional metal for issue" means and if that had anything to do with the price going up.


    I think that's also from Lyon.
     
    Tejas likes this.
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  3. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    I agree with Lyons

    Obv:– IMP CL TACITVS AVG, Radiate, draped, and cuirassed bust right
    Rev:– TEMPORVM FELICITAS, Felicitas standing left, holding caduceus and cornucopiae
    Minted in Lugdunum (A in left field | A in right field), Emission 5, Officina 1, from March to April A.D. 286
    References:– Cohen 144, RIC 65 Bust type C


    Here is one of mine from the same issue and officina.

    RI 130i img.jpg

    And here is a delta frome the same issue

    RI_130z_img.jpg

    Different issues introduced stars along with the officina mark

    Star-A

    RI_130v_img.jpg
    Delta-Star
    RI_130bu_img.JPG
     
  4. Hermann Watzlawik

    Hermann Watzlawik Well-Known Member

    this is mine Tacitus I bought just in January for 22 Euro from Bulgaria. I am not sure it is real or a fake, but for the price both is o.k.
    VS: IMP C M C L TACITVS AVG, draped, cuirassed and radiate bust right
    RS: CONSERVAT AVG/ VOT X, Sol in quadriga leaping left.
    not in RIC 5a, RIC online 4052 but there with laurel wreath
    Reference: 27th Silver Auction Lot 643 25. Nov.

    diam. 21,1 mm weight 2,53 grams thickness 1,8 mm SAM_6151.JPG SAM_6152.JPG 2018
     
  5. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark standing on the shoulders of giants Dealer

    It is a fake. This type was only struck in gold.
     
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  6. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    This was the coin offered by Savoca Silver Auction 27 Lot 643 which they withdrew, probably because the coin was deemed fake. The authentic one is a very rare aureus.
     
    Tejas, Hermann Watzlawik and ominus1 like this.
  7. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    The generally easy availability of coins of this emperor is due to the hyperactive mints during his reign that placed millions of Antoniniani in circulation during the mid to late 200’s. Coins in other metals and denominations are considerably more difficult to find.
    I have only one Tacitus Æ Antoninianus:

    Gallia, Lugdunum, 275 - 276 AD; mintmark B/*//- 2nd Officina =B, 7th emission
    20 mm, 3.481 g
    RIC V Tacitus 34; Cohen 65; Sear88 3308;

    Ob.: IMP CL TACITVS AVG Bust of Tacitus, radiate, draped, cuirassed, right
    Rev.: PAX AETERNA Pax, draped, standing left, holding olive-branch in right hand and scepter in left hand Mintmark: B / *

    upload_2021-4-17_12-53-8.png upload_2021-4-17_12-53-18.png
     
  8. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    With a less conspicuous reverse, this fake would have been very hard to detect- at least judging from the picture.
     
  9. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    Cool, thanks. I corrected my records.
     
  10. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member


    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7862445

    I wondered about that too. The coin looks very "silvery", but unlike silver wash. I also find the surfaces a bit strange. Could this be a fake?
     
  11. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the explanation of the officina letters. That is very interesting. So A-A is officina A or 1.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  12. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    I also have this nicely silvered Antoninian of Tacitus. I have it down as Ticinium.

    MARTI PACIF
    I find it interesting that Mars, the god of war, was also viewed as pacifier. I think this says a lot about the Romans view on war. In the third century war was mostly waged to "pacify" provinces, which suffered external (and internal) attacks.

    Screenshot 2021-04-19 at 08.40.37.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  13. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    Mars is associated with so many things......

    The classic MARS VICTOR

    RI_130bp_img.jpg

    CLEMENTIA (Clemency / mercy)

    RI_130bs_img.jpg

    CONSERVAT[OR] MILIT (preserver of the military)

    RI 130h img.jpg
     
  14. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    This would be a nice sub-collection: Mars and all his appearances as victor, pacifier, revenger, preserver etc.

    I love the coin above. Such a beautiful bust and interesting reverse.
     
  15. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    We should perhaps also speak about Tacitus' half-brother Florianus. His coins are a lot less common. He ruled only for about three months in 276.

    I have three Antoniniae of Florianus:
    This coin is from Cyzikus and it was attributed as first emission of the second offizin, which dates the coin to early Summer 276.
    IMP FLORIANVS AVG // CONCORDIA MILITVM
    A lovely example, with expressive (independent) portrait and full silvering




    Screenshot 2021-04-19 at 10.18.09.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  16. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    My second Florianus is from the mint of Lyon (I think):
    The coin shows the long averse legend:
    IMP C M AN FLORIANVS AVG // VIRTVS AVGVSTI - II
    I wonder, does the plural form Augusti imply that Florianus was co-emperor with Tacitus? According to the sources, he declared himself emperor only after the death of Tacitus.

    I think the die-sinker had no idea how Florianus looked and therefore depicted him as Tacitus.

    Screenshot 2021-04-19 at 11.02.20.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  17. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    Finally, this Florianus Ant. is from Rome (I think).
    IMP C FLORIANVS AVG // VIRTVS AVG - II

    The portrait has no resemblance to the portrait from Lyon:

    Screenshot 2021-04-19 at 11.06.24.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  18. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    Does it bother none of our experts that the above two quoted posts conflict? I suppose this is a problem with coins 'not in great condition' but the mintmark IA, as explained correctly has nothing to do with a TR city abbreviation. I have always wanted one of these to go with my XI double. I guess we all hope for coins that are easy to read if not mint state.



    My first thought reading the above is that this is the type thinking that is destroying the hobby. Real or fake? That makes ALL the difference. I would like to know if the price really was low enough that it was OK either way. Perhaps someday these modern fakes will be a part of our numismatic history but I hate to see them in the hands of collectors who do not care which it is as long as the price is right. The coin belongs in a "Black Museum" where it is recognized for what it is. What is a fair price for a known fake for study purposes? The number is higher when the fake coin has age and provenance like we see with Cavino's and Becker's. The early Bulgarian school fakes (whose makers are still cranking out their wares) and nearing 50 years old (is this about right or is it much less?) and not yet collectible in their own right IMO. I paid $4 for my first group of Slavei's and see them being sold for as much as $20 now when identified as what they are. They are not in the least deceptive to anyone who has handled the originals. What is the current state of our hobby "fake" subspecialty?

    To make this reply 'legal', I show a slightly different Tacitus from Serdica which includes INVICTVS in the obverse legend.
    RIC temp #3956 specimen #4 (I am proud to have the worst known specimen.)
    https://ric.mom.fr/en/coin/3956?tem...erence=&page=2&mod=result&hpp=5&from=advanced
    rs2455bb2964.jpg
     
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  19. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member


    Thanks a lot for this explanation. I completely ignored the IA, but thought I could identify TR, which is clearly wrong.

    So XXI and KA indicate a 5% silver content (1 in 20)
    XI (Antioch) and IA (Tripolis) indicate a 10% silver content (1 in 10)

    How are these coins attributed to Tripolis - coin hoard evidence or style?
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
    Claudius_Gothicus likes this.
  20. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    This is fantastic. I wish I had an exemplar with INVICTVS. Granted, the condition is not great, but INVICTVS is clearly legible.
     
  21. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    I fully agree. Coins are historical documents. Faking coins is like faking or distorting history. Fakes should be properly identified, published and excluded from the coin trade/collecting.
     
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