T-Bone Tuesday!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Roman Collector, Jun 30, 2020 at 8:36 AM.

  1. juris klavins

    juris klavins Well-Known Member

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  3. juris klavins

    juris klavins Well-Known Member

    He's got his dancing shoes on - aah the good old days ;)
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  4. juris klavins

    juris klavins Well-Known Member

    Lol - looks like the head and naughty bits were transplanted from a smaller statue :rolleyes:
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  5. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio Supporter

    the mantra of coin buyers in 2020
    Shea19 and Roman Collector like this.
  6. Broucheion

    Broucheion Well-Known Member

    The only coin I have of this emperor:

    EDIT: Sorry for the typo, will fix in my database ASAP!
  7. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    That's an interesting thought. As far as I know, this statue was discovered more or less complete, just requiring some minor restoration.

    However, for full replacement of heads in antiquity, it was relatively common. In some instances, it was done for a damnatio memoriae sort of situation. Sometimes, older marble heads were recarved just to fit the current political need.

    For bronze statue replacements, the Colossus of Nero's head was replaced with Commodus's head, so it certainly happened.

    It could be that the TBone statue was of an older bronze heroic sculpture.

    As for the naughty bits, I suspect that was original to the statue. I guess these folks' family jewels were not very impressive.
    juris klavins likes this.
  8. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing Supporter

    Maybe T-Bone sat for the artist to craft the sculpture on the northern Germanic limes... during winter... and was cold... :eek::cold::cyclops::facepalm:
  9. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    Nice coins!

    I consider this T-bone to be one of the crown jewels of my Roman collection
    Trebonianus Gallus Libertas.jpg

    Here is also a sestertius, sadly most of the legend is partially off-flan but still identifiable with a lovely portrait
    trebonianus gallus sestertius mars.jpg

    Here's Volusian
    Volusian Genius of Senate.jpg

    (Volusian as Caesar is on my list - CNG listed one a few months back, but it went for a good $200 above what I was willing to pay)

    And the ever-elusive Hostilian as Augustus, this one I think from the Antioch mint
    Hostilian augustus romae aeternae.jpg
  10. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    When I went for a military physical once, the room was FREEZING cold. It was bit embarassing to turn my head and cough while sporting a small raisin
    Justin Lee likes this.
  11. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    There is a terrific article on the Trebonianus Gallus statue at the Met - it includes circumstances of its find, and how it was made, and which "bits" are original, naughty or otherwise. It's a pdf:


    I have one of those Cyprian Plague Apollo issues, like the OP but in bronze. In awful shape, but these are hard to find. Somebody took a whack at Tbone's face, for some reason.

    Trebonianus Gallus - Sest Apollo 2017 (0).jpg

    Trebonianus Gallus Æ Sestertius
    Rome Mint
    (253 A.D.)

    IMP CAE C VIB TREB GALLVS AVG, laureate, cuirassed draped bust right / APOLLO SALVTARI S-C, Apollo naked standing left, holding branch & resting hand on lyre set on a rock.
    RIC 104b (rarer than APOLL).
    (17.15 grams / 27 mm)
  12. DonnaML

    DonnaML Supporter! Supporter

    Here are my two:

    Trebonianus Gallus, AR Antoninianus. 251-253 AD, Rome Mint. Obv. Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right, IMP CAE C VIB TREB GALLVS AVG/ Rev. Felicitas standing left, leaning against column, holding short caduceus and transverse scepter, FELICITAS PVBLICA. RIC IV-3 34a, RSC IV 41. 22mm, 3.46g.

    Trebonianus Gallus - Felicitas jpg version.jpg

    Volusian (son of Trebonianus Gallus), AR Antoninianus. 253 AD, Rome Mint. Obv. Radiate, draped, and cuirassed bust right, IMP CAE C VIB VOLVSIANO AVG / Volusian as Genius of the Senate, standing left, holding branch and scepter, P M TR P IIII COS II. RIC IV-3 140, RSC IV 92, Sear RCV III 9762. 21 mm., 3.74 g., 6 h.

    Volusian jpg version.jpg
  13. DonnaML

    DonnaML Supporter! Supporter

    If, as discussed in the recent thread at https://www.cointalk.com/threads/is-there-anything-more-macho-than-the-emperor-as-virtvs.361356/ -- see especially the comments by @curtislclay and myself -- the personification of Virtus is not only always female but always is shown with one bare breast, then the figure on the reverse of this coin cannot be Virtus herself, but must instead be either a soldier or Volusian himself, representing the qualities of "virtus."
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  14. DonnaML

    DonnaML Supporter! Supporter

    Except on statutes of satyrs, Priapus, etc., portraying male figures with small genitals on statues and other art was an artistic convention in ancient Greece, which the Romans followed. See the discussion at http://www.howtotalkaboutarthistory...y-do-all-old-statues-have-such-small-penises/

    "All representations of large penises in ancient Greek art and literature are associated with foolish, lustful men, or the animal-like satyrs. Meanwhile, the ideal Greek man was rational, intellectual and authoritative. He may still have had a lot of sex, but this was unrelated to his penis size, and his small penis allowed him to remain coolly logical."

    See also https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-ancient-greek-sculptures-small-penises

    "Lustful, depraved satyrs, in particular, were rendered with very large, erect genitals, sometimes almost as tall as their torsos. According to mythology, these creatures were part-man, part-animal, and totally lacked restraint—a quality reviled by Greek high society. “Big penises were vulgar and outside the cultural norm, something sported by the barbarians of the world,” writes Chrystal. Indeed, across many an amphora pot and frieze, well-endowed satyrs can be seen drinking and pleasuring themselves with abandon.

    In Greek comedy, fools also routinely sported large genitals—“the sign of stupidity, more of a beast than a man,” according to Chrystal. So, too, did artistic representations of the Egyptians, says Lear, who were long-time enemies of the Greeks.

    In this way, satyrs, fools, and foes served as foils to male gods and heroes, who were honored for their self-control and intelligence (along with other qualities requiring restraint, like loyalty and prudence). If large phalluses represented gluttonous appetites, then “the conclusion can be drawn that the small, flaccid penis represented self-control,” explains Lear."
  15. Spaniard

    Spaniard Well-Known Member

    @DonnaML .....Wow!...You certainly know your penises! :wideyed:
    @TIF ....
    ..:hilarious::hilarious:..Good answer!
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  16. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

    I just read this thread and your discussion with great interest – thanks a lot for bringing it to my attention, Donna!

    I do find your arguments fully convincing. Yet, I think the reverse figure on my somewhat worn antoninianus is in fact shown half bare-chested and thus must be considered Virtus. This is implied by the better-preserved coins of Volusian depicted in OCRE clearly showing a bare chest, as well as by coins of the same type minted for other emperors, such as the two examples from my collection below. Both reverse figures have one side of the chest exposed:

    Rom – Gordian III, Antoninian, Virtus m. Schild.png
    Gordian III, Roman Empire, antoninianus, 238–239 AD, Rome mint. Obv: IMP CAES M ANT GORDIANVS AVG; bust of Gordian III, radiate and draped, r. Rev: VIRTVS AVG; Virtus standing l., leaning on shield and holding spear. 22mm, 5.00g. Ref: RIC IV Gordian III 6. Ex Otto Helbing Nachf., München, Auction 86 (11/15/1942), lot 1758 (on ticket, in catalogue: 1757); ex AMCC 2, lot 464.

    Rom – Victorinus, Antoninian, Virtus.png
    Victorinus, Gallic Roman Empire, AE antoninian, 271 AD, Trier mint. Obv: IMP C VICTORINVS PF AVG; radiate, draped, cuirassed bust of Victorinus r. Rev: [VIRT]VS AVG; Virtus, helmetes, standing r., holding spear and leaning on shield. 17mm, 1.98g. Ref: Mairat 635; RIC V,2 Victorinus 78.
  17. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    Volusian. 251-253 AD. Æ Sestertius. (27mm; 17.10 gm; 1h). Obv: IMP CAE C VIB VOLVSIANO AVG, laureate, draped, and cuirassed bust right, seen from behind. Rev: IVNONI MARTIALI, S-C across fields. Juno seated facing, holding wheat-ears and scepter in r. hand; all within domed distyle temple, set on three-tiered base. RIC IV 253a; Hunter 30.
  18. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    Hostilian. As Caesar, 250-251 AD. Æ Sestertius. (29mm; 19.28 gm; 6h). Rome mint, 4th officina. 5th emission of Trajan Decius, 251 AD. Obv: Bareheaded and draped bust right. Rev: Apollo seated. l. holding branch and resting elbow on lyre. RIC IV 215a
  19. DonnaML

    DonnaML Supporter! Supporter

    Wow. You really went there. I wish I were witty enough to think of a clever response, but I'm coming up short. I won't touch the subject with a 10-foot pole.
    Justin Lee, Spaniard, TIF and 2 others like this.
  20. DonnaML

    DonnaML Supporter! Supporter

    I'll take your word for it, although I don't really see it on your example -- it looks like both shoulders are covered with the tunic. But I guess that's just an illusion from the degree of wear.
    Orielensis likes this.
  21. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..this thread prompted me to listen to "Tuesday afternoon" by the Moody Blues...thanks RC! :)
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