syntethic toning

It's difficult to argue with that definition. The only thing that remains is the detective work to determine whether there was intent.

 

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Guessing damage to coin due to high humidity, ph of solution and salt deposits of a typical hydro setup. With just a light and in average humidity it would depend on distance from the light and ambient temp. of the room. Try putting some junk silver directly on different types of bulbs to see first hand.

 

I don't think the type of light would have too much of an effect. The key thing is the amount of heating the light souce provided to the coin. I would think that florescents would be a cold light source and would not provide much of a warming effect. Heat lamps would probably provide too much heat and result in odd colors. I would think intense incandescents would work best. Possible a high wattage halogen if you wanted to speed things up a bit.

I also agree with GD, intent is usually the only real difference between AT and NT. They tend to use the same chemicals and produce the same chemical products on the surface of the coin and often the same appearance. The only difference is in the amount of time it takes for the reactants to appear. And sometimes NT can occur quickly as well. this just leaves intent. The problem is, just looking at the coin you often can't know for sure how the toning formed, and there is no way you can divine what the intent of the person who put it there was.

 

Maybe with the real good coin doctors out there you can't tell the difference , but I also worry about all the coins they have ruined . Also there are more bad examples of AT out there where the average collector can tell , and I can just imagine all the coins they have ruined . As GD said it's a hit or miss proposition .
rzage:whistle:

 

I wouldn't worry too much about that. Only the expert coin doctors will attempt to AT an expensive coin. If their experiment fails and the toning is ugly or not passable for NT, they will have essentially ruined an expensive coin and lost a lot of money. That is why the amateur coin doctors stick to BU common coins (Franklins, Morgans, AU/BU Peace Dollars, Jeffersons, Roosevelts etc.). Only a very skilled coin doctor could attempt to AT a $1,000+ coin. He would need to have predictable results in order to attempt the process in the first place.

 

There seems to be a market for AT coins, so it's tough to make the case that the coins are "ruined." So much about the hobby is subjective that it becomes difficult to state with authority that one opinion is better than another. I prefer plain grey toning on older coins so to me, NT rainbow toning isn't something to be desired either -- even though it brings high prices.

 

The prices for beautifly toned coins is going through the roof , I'd pay extra for a nicely toned coin , maybe 10% but from what I've heard you're talking maybe 2-300% markup , maybe someone can shed some light on the true markup .
rzage

 

Holy smokes! Are you joshin'? If not, I've got a '58-D cent I want you to meet. I'll post it, tomorrow, camera battery is out of juice. I'd love to hear the "market grade" on it.

 

Fair enough. Consider it in the on-deck circle for now. I'll get it up there tomorrow. Just want you to do what you do best, call 'em like you see 'em. Have to warn you, though, this one's a hitter.

 

i agree now where is the shampoo

 

That's fine. I didn't just join here, yesterday, Doug. I'm aware you call a tight strike zone.

Toned Morgans are going crazy, though. That's why I think a common date Lincoln wheat (and, you can't get much more "common" than a '58-D) might be an interesting change for us, perhaps even somewhat of a learning experience. After all, the strike zone is the same size for all hitters...from the knees to the pits. Thus, we have to go by the same rules, apply the same principles, for all hitters, regardless of size.

Just one other thing. I know a little bit about the Lincoln "technical" criteria...the wheat heads, wheat stalks, hair, cheek and jaw, bow tie, not too many nicks and it would be nice if the luster shined and did acrobatics and wasn't flat or dull...but, beyond that simple criteria, I'm pretty much lost on these. So, I step into the batter's box with this, tomorrow, and I'm going to be keeping both ears open, trying to understand.

OK. Not going to attempt to bias the umpires any further, tonight. 'Till game time, logging off.

 

Rusty,

Check out this thread, it should help answer some questions about the prices of rainbow toned coins. However, I disagree that rainbow toned coins are hot. They have consistently driven huge premiums and will continue do so with the influx of more collectors. It is not a passing fad. If it were, I would have been able to buy some cheap coins over the last 10 years. As it is, I always have to pay a huge premium for my coins.

http://cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=39837

 

The pendulum swings both ways, Lehigh. It could also be these toned Morgans haven't yet reached their saturation point. Not saying they're bell bottom jeans and platform shoes, but that we don't know that, yet. Give it time. Five years or so ago I saw the ugliest toned Franklin half on Heritage NGC-graded upper gem (67/68, I don't remember exactly), FBL. You couldn't even see any of the details in any of the critical areas for the "toning" (...or, if you could, it was very difficult). Today that negative toning would subtract from the technical grade; but, just five years ago, it was considered irrelevant to the grade, a wash. Today, toning is in more solid with these TPGs as a grading checkpoint, and hardly just icing on the cake, anymore.

Again, just saying we don't know. Your position is supportable. The opposing position is just as supportable. All anybody can definitively say is we'll get closer to the answer as time goes along. Just my buck three-eighty...don't get all worked up and in attack mode. I love your collection. I told you it wasn't my taste, but I think it's a very enviable, if not...given the market conditions, today...valuable one. But this market on these "toners" is too young to forecast, as yet; and that's my position, here, in a nutshell.

 

Thanks Le , that was a great thread and since I love a monster toner I guess I'll shell out the needed money for one or two . More than I intended but well worth it when you think of the scarcity .
rzage:smile:hail: