Swollen letters in AMERICA 1982 Lincoln

Discussion in 'Coin Roll Hunting' started by Scubalou, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. Scubalou

    Scubalou Well-Known Member

    These letters in AMERICA on the back of this 1982 Lincoln look like cartoon letters. The E looks like it's doubled. Any ideas? The E in UNITED looks doubled as well. On the front a series of dots seem to follow the shape of Lincoln's bust, on the left side.
     

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  3. Rick Stachowski

    Rick Stachowski Motor City Car Capital

    The easiest way to tell a ddr on this year, is the " C " in AMERICA .
    And I'm not seeing it ..

    This cent is struck on a zinc planchet to ....
     
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  4. Scubalou

    Scubalou Well-Known Member

    Well, the E looks doubled and the AM looks like they sat on an air hose. The right side of the A and the left side of the M look large and misshapen, but no the C doesn't appear to be doubled. Here's one more pic
     

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  5. Inspector43

    Inspector43 Celebrating 75 Years Active Collecting Supporter

    Did you weigh it? Is it the 3.11 grams or the 2.5 grams?
     
  6. Scubalou

    Scubalou Well-Known Member

    O.K., just weighted it. It's 2.5.
    Thanks
     
  7. Inspector43

    Inspector43 Celebrating 75 Years Active Collecting Supporter

    What you are seeing may be the effect of the plating process.
     
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  8. Scubalou

    Scubalou Well-Known Member

    O.K., Here's a few more pics. Not sure how the plating would be responsible but may play a part. I think that it has more to do with flow. Perhaps a weak strike in which the top of the back didn't get enough metal and it's distribution was irregular. The columns on the monument are all screwed up. The first and last are skinny. The others seen to vary in thickness. Front seems normal to me.
     

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  9. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    You are actually right ... "looks like they sat on an air hose"

    This is a 8 micron thick copper plate on a zinc planchet. You will get gas bubbles, the surface gets damaged and stretched and torn especially in the early years (think 1982 to 1990ish or more).

    "large and misshapen" ... once again YES. This is due to the copper plated zinc planchet problems they were having, plus looks like a deteriorated die in which things start looking weird.

    notice has the copper "skin" is getting bubbly? The zinc underneath is corroding and pushing up the copper plating. This is like a car that starts rusting and the paint starts swelling and deforming and chipping.

    You have described quite well, with a prime example, of the major issues with copper plated zinc core pennies. This one just has a lot of various problems.

    Google "zinc steam" for an answer to how nice (not nice) zinc is.

    you have to remember, these coins are made for commerce.
    For collectors they make proof sets, etc.

    These are made from 250 to 800 per minute or 4.1 to 13.3 per second (just think of how fast that is). they don't really care about quality as much as they need quantity to maintain a certain cost ratio. So they switched to a cheap metal (they had a multiyear study on this solution reviewing issues, etc which is available on the USMINT.gov website) to reduce the cost of each coin. But the lower cost brought about many, many problems - which they knew. But due to gov't requirements and cost targets and production targets this design was used.


    Also, keep in mind the reason "steam" is an issue is that blanks go through annealing, cleaning (in water) then through a furnace to dry them (creating steam). So the US MINt tests coins going through that process to make sure they can survive. The Cents do good enough ...

    Then add all the times ppl leave their change in their pockets before having them go through a washer/dryer kinda emulating the very problem they have issues with.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  10. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    specifically:
    https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/2016/08/unexpected-bumps-on-coins-surfaces-vary.all.html

    5. Plating blisters
    Plating blisters develop in the coin in the immediate aftermath of the strike, as gas expands between the core and poorly bonded plating. Among domestic coins, plating blisters are the exclusive province of copper-plated zinc cents. Blisters are generally small and subcircular, with a smooth surface and soft outline. They can occur anywhere on the field and design. The design continues uninterrupted as it crosses a blister.

    6. Occluded gas bubbles
    Solely the province of solid-alloy coins, occluded gas bubbles form just beneath the surface and push up the overlying metal immediately after the strike. Like plating blisters, the surface is smooth and the edges soft. The design is uninterrupted.

    7. Corrosion domes
    Contaminants trapped beneath or penetrating the surface of aluminum, plated zinc, and plated steel coins can react with surrounding metal to form an expanding front of spongy, corroded metal. The resulting solid dome will superficially resemble a hollow plating blister or occluded gas bubble. In many cases the corroded metal bursts through and may fall out, leaving a crater.


    gas bubble example: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/lincolns-gas-bubbles.274213/

    you'll find many, many posted examples. Just search "plating blister" or "gas bubble" and look at the search results.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
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  11. Scubalou

    Scubalou Well-Known Member

    Wow, lots of info. Thanks so much, knew it looked weird.
     
  12. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect since I was a baby

    Thanks for the info. That explains my physical condition these days.
     
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  13. Colonialjohn

    Colonialjohn Active Member

    In simpler terms whenever you place a more oxidizable metal (Zn) UNDER a lesser oxidizable metal (Cu) its going to want to make its way to the surface - eventually. Interesting note - those silver 8R's from the EL CALZADOR wreck - see here:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1783-Mo-FF...=item3fb8c71525:g:6M4AAOSwlzRacQ4R:rk:37:pf:0

    Doing XRF surface analysis they generally read 98-99% Ag rather than 92%. With well worn salt water exposed 8R shipwrecked pieces most of the Cu (more oxidizable metal) has LEACHED OUT of the alloy giving it these high Ag readings. Same process with Zn wanting to escape out from under the copper plate.

    John Lorenzo
     
  14. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    lol
     
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  15. juris klavins

    juris klavins Well-Known Member

    I hear ya :p
     
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  16. PlanoSteve

    PlanoSteve Well-Known Member

    @Scubalou, when assessing coins like this there are several aspects to consider:

    In 1982, the philly mint made over 10.7 billion (yes, billion) of these. They used & abused a lot of dies.

    They are zinc cents (enough said).

    Once you determine that the die is breaking down, you must reconsider anything you think you see as doubling. (Not that you can't have real doubling on a deteriorating die, but most dies, in their dying stages, will show some form of disfigurement that people confuse with real doubling.)

    Additionally, if you look at the obverse of your cent, in the field from the back of Abe's collar going NW to the "I" in "IN", it looks to be the early stages of a die crack & thus a deteriorating die. :happy::singing::cigar:;)
     
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  17. Spark1951

    Spark1951 Accomplishment, not Activity

    ...and, this is why they call them "crappy Zincolns"
    ...and also why CT gets so many posts about them because the design has a lot that can go wrong with them
    ...and, finally but not inclusively, why a lot of collectors don't collect them (business strikes)...Spark
     
  18. Scubalou

    Scubalou Well-Known Member

    Thank you all very much. You've been a wealth of information. Now I have a much better understanding of the problems with these pennies. I must say, however, they present some interesting irregularities. I'm new enough to see the humor in them, and old enough to not get attached.
     
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  19. nickelsorter2017

    nickelsorter2017 Active Member

    Due to inflation, coins have lost nearly all of their original purchasing power. One cents and five cents coins have been commercially useless for all purposes except as sales tax tokens. If we didn't have incompetent people running the mint, the smallest denomination would be the 10 cents coin and new denominations would have been issued, something more sensible like 10 cents, 20 cents, 50 cents resized, 1 dollar resized, 2 dollars and 5 dollars coins with 1,000 dollars, 5,000 dollars and 10,000 dollars circulating banknotes. I know it's not popular to say it - but there aren't any collectible USA circulation type coins minted after 1955. They are all common, overproduced and poorly minted.
     
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