Superb Gem Bills -- HUGE Price Increases Over 65's ?

Discussion in 'Paper Money' started by GoldFinger1969, Aug 25, 2019.

  1. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Hey it rare to see really huge boosts over the prices listed in the reference books for a 65 CH UNC bill, such as a Silver Certificate ? I am seeing price increases of 300-800% if you go up by 2-3 grades from a PMG or PCGS 65 on some bills. Instead of $30-$50, I'm looking at $200 - $600.

    On the one hand....I understand it's all about supply & demand and that the population can take a huge drop as you go from 65 to 67 or even 68. You can go from hundreds to just single-digits sometimes. I get that.

    On the other hand....some of the bills are SO SPECIFIC (i.e., Wide 1 vs. Wide 2, 1957 vs. 1957A, Star or No-Star, etc.) that it's hard to believe people are collecting all of the different variations. So you would think except for the true expert with lots of $$$$ that most would find them interchangeable and thus increase the supply.

    I'm just shocked because my impression was that there are not as many paper money collectors as coin collectors....there's tons more variations and types of bill than with coins....and some of these price boosts above the Reference Guides are the kind of boosts you see for super-rare coins with hardly any supply at all (i.e., 1927-D Saints).

    Thoughts ?
    Penna_Boy and Stevearino like this.
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  3. Penna_Boy

    Penna_Boy Just a nobody from the past

    I'm not surprised. EBay the prices have gone into outer space. I can buy from two nationally known coin dealers cheaper than EBay.
  4. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I see lots of SC's (and other stuff) that don't get any action and keep getting re-listed so I am hesitant to buy. I have to be lucky and see if I can see if eBay or an auction house has a record for a previous sale for the same exact bill (or coin) and that gives me at least an actual reference price.

    Otherwise, the thing I see offered for $500 that is a PMG 67 that lists for $40 in 65 in the Reference do I know that the real or FMV isn't actually $200 instead of $400 or $450 (I don't mind paying an extra 10-15% via Ebay if I have to, but I don't want to pay 100% extra).
  5. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    eBay is way out of line on some things. It all depends on the bill itself and who wants it.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  6. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Here's a good example of what I am talking about:

    I have the same FR #1621 bill in a PMG 68 (has an RQN sticker) and I paid under $100 for it. Even if this seller gives me a discount, it's over 4x what mine cost.

    The population drops from 152 to 10 (in the PMG universe) so I get the scarcity factor. Just surprised that you see that big a jump for a particular bill that is not that unique, IMO.
  7. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    Yes, as the grade rises so does the value of the note, especially if the grade
    is a top pop or very close to it, even though 70 is the highest grade available
    only 1 -2 percent achieve this, so its not realistic, and the other hand 69 could
    Be as high as 5-10 percent which is much more realistic, as far as 65,s go
    This would be an average with uneven boarders, 67 offers the best of both
    Worlds high quality nice price.
  8. James Shields

    James Shields Active Member

    It doesn’t take long to find overpriced notes on eBay. The example @GoldFinger1969 posted is for sale. eBay lets the seller write the auction description and set the the price. When you search SOLD items, prices come down to realistic values. Higher grades do attract higher prices, but ASKING prices are just that, asking.

    Here’s a pair of 68PPQ SC’s that sold for under $120.

    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
  9. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Maybe less currency than coins get graded, but the population drops off very much above 65 for bills relative to coins as you go to 66, 67, 68, etc.

    Don't forget....there are so many variations and specific types of bills that the universe is more fragmented. Meaning that the population for each unique bill is reduced.
  10. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    JS, don't forget my listing was for a 69 and those completed sales are for 68's. I got a 68 too for under $100.

    The Question is: how much of a markup ABOVE the 68's does this 69 sell for ? It's strictly condition rarity, we're not talking an entire year or mint that is rare (i.e., 1927-D Saint).

    My experience with Ebay over the years is you can (usually) get 10% off or so. There's enough "fluff" in the asking prices to allow for that, Ebay fees, etc. Ask for 20% off and they usually balk and counter-offer. This is for stuff usually < $1,000.

    But if the true market value of a 69 is closer to $300 then you would still be paying well-above FMV for the bill.
  11. James Shields

    James Shields Active Member

    I’ve seen Fr.1621 notes graded 69PPQ sell for as little as $180.
  12. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Supporter! Supporter

    You can ASK anything you want on fleaBay. Look at actual sales. If it doesn't sell for a long time, it's overpriced.
    -jeffB likes this.
  13. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Really ? :wideyed:

    Wow.....I'm kinda surprised if that's a recent transaction....only about 2x what the 68's go for.
  14. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Yup.....Heritage is a good place to check, I just always have trouble using the interfaces on Ebay and Heritage to get enough specific items that match what I am looking at. I'll try using the Friedberg #; that should help.
  15. James Shields

    James Shields Active Member

    Here’s two. The first one should look familiar.

    CDF4B001-2ACA-4AA8-9C7C-325A183F6D1A.jpeg 667B785C-BA31-44C5-B0FE-46847277A743.jpeg
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  16. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Supporter! Supporter

    Works for me. You also have to take into account the "different auction". Maybe the guy who really wanted it bought the 1st one and the next guy didn't have to bid it up as much. Maybe one looks better than the grade (or worse). Maybe it's Friday.

    Comparing auction prices has a high degree of uncertainty
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  17. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

  18. James Shields

    James Shields Active Member

  19. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Yup....and never mind, I missed the typo on the SN. Hence the premium. :D

    For some reason, PCGS didn't mention it on the slab.
  20. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
  21. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    Prices are always relative to supply on hand, low supply, high prices, here,s one
    From my neck of the woods MPC Series 681 $10 in PCGS 69PPQ , i have owned
    This note for 10 plus years and it remains the one and only 69PPQ in population
    There are 4 68,s however there is no comparison value wise, if you can find a 68
    That is the 4 that are available, which i know for a fact are in private collections
    would be in the $1,500 range if they would be willing to let them go that is my
    69 priceless...LOL
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
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