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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Insider, post: 3009050, member: 24314&quot;]Jack D. Young, posted:&nbsp; &quot;That’s part of what’s good about forums like this, the ability to share dissenting opinions.&quot; </p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #b300b3">In this case you <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie26" alt=":bookworm:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> and I have <b>no dissenting opinion</b>.&nbsp; Educating folks about counterfeits and correcting a TPGS&#039;s errors is an admirable pursuit!&nbsp; I wish I had your knowledge about early copper.&nbsp; I&#039;m sure I should have &quot;missed&quot; the fact that those coins were state-of-the-art counterfeits - just as PCGS did.&nbsp; Thank goodness the system of &quot;authenticating-the-authenticators&quot; that has ALWAYS been in place works.</span> </p><p><br /></p><p>I agree the TPG’s have a large impact on collectors and the Hobby in general and certainly provide a service to both. I am neither for or against TPG’s, and I know mistakes are human and happen in both authentication and (perceived) grading, with the major TPG’s guarantee of authenticity being the largest benefit of the service in my opinion, but <b>many hobbyists and collectors take the labeled opinion as gospel.</b></p><p><b><br /></b></p><p><span style="color: #b300b3">As many should if they are not qualified to grade or authenticate coins for themselves!&nbsp; You and I both agree that the TPGS&#039;s are a good thing!</span></p><p><br /></p><p><b>TPG’s and slabs are <span style="color: #ff0000">no substitute to collector knowledge</span></b> (again in my opinion),</p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #b300b3"><b>That is a FACT</b>, not an opinion.&nbsp; KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!</span></p><p><br /></p><p>...and showing a non-seasoned copper collector one of the fakes in a slab typically leads to disbelief and lively discussions on just how can that be? On the other hand, I have shown large scale images of a fake example to collectors only to have them state it is “obvious” and a “TPG” would see right through it until they see the actual imaged example in the slab. Unfortunately the slabs give credence to just HOW DECEPTIVE THESE EXAMPLES ACTUALLY ARE, as they have passed both knowledgeable collectors and TPG graders as well.</p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #b300b3">I&#039;m 100% positive that if you told these idiots you mention that the fake coins &quot;passed&quot; a grading service as genuine they would believe you.&nbsp; My examples of counterfeits that passed detection are &quot;RAW.&quot;&nbsp; My students know that I don&#039;t grandstand or claim to be &quot;Better Than&quot; or &quot;More Expert&quot; than any of my numismatic peer&#039;s inside or outside a TPGS - including you. </span></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Not sure how showing these in the slabs or putting them in individual’s hands to review against other known examples is “self-serving” or a “grandstanding circus act”, but that is your opinion, <span style="color: #b300b3">(if you don&#039;t understand...well...)</span> although I should have stated that the displays and counterfeit detection seminars these are displayed in have only been at EAC (Early American Coppers) functions to date. </p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #b300b3">I&#039;ll guarantee the EAC folks would get a better idea of what the coins looked like if they were &quot;raw&quot; and placed under a stereo microscope!&nbsp; The reason those coins passed detection in the first place is BECAUSE THE FOLKS AT THE TPGS DON&quot;T EXAMINE ALL COINS using a <b>stereo microscope</b>!&nbsp; That is the reason the fakers have banged them up and corroded them!!&nbsp; Otherwise, they probably would have been detected much sooner by the TPGS without any outside help.&nbsp; That is my opinion based on what I&#039;ve seen and I don&#039;t claim to be a copper &quot;expert.&quot;</span>&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>And yes, the 1847 Hawaiian large cent is one of the struck fakes also “out there”, along with many silver denominations including struck fake 1836 Gobrecht “dollars”.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #b300b3">Keep up your good work.&nbsp; I&#039;ve just suggested there is possibly a way to do it with more &quot;class&quot; that will accomplish the same outcome without disparaging the TPGS&#039;s.</span></p><p><span style="color: #b300b3"><br /></span></p><p><span style="color: #b300b3">I&#039;m reminded of a funny story from the 1980&#039;s.&nbsp; I walked past the PCGS table and there was one showcase with a black velvet liner.&nbsp; In the case was a mislabeled NGC slab.&nbsp; A very low class stunt on their part.&nbsp;&nbsp; I walked around the show and purchased a cheap dollar in a mislabeled PCGS slab.&nbsp; I showed it to the PCGS guys and suggested their display was a sleazy practice that reflected poorly on their business and all TPGS&#039;s.&nbsp; Then I showed them their &quot;error&quot; and said I could have bought another mistake to show them but it was too expensive.&nbsp; The next time I passed their booth, the NGC coin had been removed. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie8" alt=":D" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />&nbsp; </span>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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