Strange late roman monogram? or imitative coin?

Hi guys!
What do you think about this monograman? I cant find It on the web and in any reference (RIC X, and Morello, Piccoli Bronzi....). It looks like a great H with a G, a T and S below.
In the obverse can read DN... but the rest of legend is illegible.
Hope you can help me!

 

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A little too "Late" for me as I specialize in coinage from 337-410 CE, but @Brian Bucklan and @ValiantKnight are experts for this era.

 

It's not a monogram of any of the usual suspects:
http://www.catbikes.ch/coinstuff/monograms.htm

Check out the Catalogue of Coins of the Vandals, and see if it's there:
http://ia800301.us.archive.org/17/items/cu31924029792722/cu31924029792722.pdf

If you find the answer let me know!

 

Looks like Athalaric to me, with Justinian on obv.

http://www.catbikes.ch/coinstuff/monograms.htm

Scroll to Athalaric. There isn't a 100% match but the few that are listed for him are pretty close.

 

Welcome, new member Valentinianus, from Valentinian.

 

This comes up often - a monogram which is close, but not a perfect match to a published example. I saw it with an Anthemius that was auctioned recently. Is it simply that these coins haven't been studied extensively and more scholarship is needed on late Roman/Vandal monograms?
How do we determine if a not-quite-right monogram is an official issue, an ancient imitation or a modern fake?

 

Ultimately when it comes to monograms, I stick with buying the recognized types. Anything not found in any of the sources at my disposal I try to obtain second opinions on.

 

I saw a thread from a few months ago where someone had a fake monogram. That's pretty scary stuff!

 

I think it was the Anthemius fake monogram - it looked sort of like Anthemius, but wasn't one of the published monograms. There's a lot of tooling going on in this space. Check out this coin:


Sold to me as a Julius Nepos - and the monogram looks about right. Check out the obverse lettering (DN) IVL N(EPOS AVG). I had an expert look at it, probably someone you've heard of His opinion was the lettering wasn't typical for a late Roman Bronze (too fine), and was probably tooled. The reverse monogram was probably a slightly altered Ricimer monogram (on a Severus III nummus). Whatever the coin was, it's ruined completely now.

 

Wow! That's pretty bad!!

 

Yeah, it's why I'm very vary of monograms, and very late Roman AE4s in general.
There is lot of dubious stuff in the auctions. I don't trust anyone who says they have a Nepos monogram or an Avitus - unless the style is right and I can work out how the seller arrived at the attribution. There's a wretched Majorian AE4 in upcoming auctions and I haven't a clue why they'd think it's a Majorian. It doesn't even have a legend. For these late Roman rulers, I'd prefer a tremissis or a solidus.

 

VK is right, it isn't a perfect fit for Athalaric but it's the closest match. There's also a Theodoric type that kind of, sort of, looks like this. As a monogram collector I've come across quite a few of these close, but not quite right, varieties. At this point I'd call it an imitative Ostrogothic type.

And don't get me started on that absolutely fake Anthemius monogram that was auctioned off recently.

 

I forget to tell that I see Wroth too with the other references!, and match no monogram here.

You are right with similarities with Athalaric monogram... a characterisc that I see is the "bold" of the monogram, similar to Athalaric one, but my mainly dougt is the upper G.

 

Searching monograms of Athalaric, I found this coin sold in Roma Numismatics Ltd., Auction VI:



I just realize that letter below its a G shape (surelly for C letter) like the upper letter on my monogram.

There is a comparison of two monograms, looks similar between them, there are doference in A and R.

 

Here is one possibility. Maybe the OP monogram coin was severely tooled, that is, carved, and then repatinated. The depth of the "T", "S" and monogram in general is unusually great. In contrast, the obverse strike is not deep at all, which leads me to believe the OP coin current monogram was cut, or recut, recently (perhaps just in an attempt to remove corrosion). So, I think it is tooled enough that we cannot know the original monogram with certainty.

 

This coin come togheter with a 32 coins more from Roma Numismatics auction belonging to the Dr. Murray Gell-Mann collection, I dont think (and hope) that is a tooled coin, It comes with a lot of Ostrogothic/Vandalic coins, and all looks OK, almost to me!

 

Lucky!

 

Thank You! I will post highlights soon!

 

Hi guys!
Today searching on the web, I find on an Italian forum, lamoneta.it, the next thread: MONOGRAMMA INEDITO? with the same monogram of mine.. almost.. I am not alone in this searching
This is the coin pictured:

​

 

Making a close up It seems to be D N IV in the beginning of the obverse. Im pretty sure that the coin is an Athaslaricus monogram, minted at Justinian I name, but I want to hear wath the other specialist on this area think.