Strange associations

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by jamesicus, Jul 12, 2020.

  1. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    Like this Sestertius of Caligula with PIETAS on the obverse. Caligula associated with Piety - who would have thought that?!

    64F64B78-9E59-4F21-AF50-4B5C0487C70B.png

    Please post you coins with strange or incongruent associations.
     
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  3. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Obviously, Caligula. He was exerting a great act of piety dedicating the great temple to the Divine Augustus as shown on the other side of the coin. Depending on how you look at it, piety could include realizing the fact that you were the chosen one and worshiping yourself would be an act of piety. Caligula was not the first person to play under that theory and he has been followed by a steady stream of 2000 years worth of politicians and bullies all convinced that they were the best thing that happened to the world. Coins reflect the mindset of the authority that made them. Truth is hardly a requirement. I love that coin. It portrays Caligula as well as the popular ones that have his face.
    rb0990b02237lg.jpg rb1005bbbbbb.jpg
     
  4. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

    Here is Carus, who presumably was killed by lightning, depicted together with Jupiter. One can only guess that their relationship must have been rather strained:

    Rom – Carus, antoninian, Jupiter und Kaiser, neu.png
    Carus, Roman Empire, Antoninianus, 282/3 AD, Cyzicus mint. Obv: IMP C M AVR CARVS PF AVG, radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right. Rev: CLEMENTIA TEMP, Carus (left) receiving Victory on globe from Jupiter (right), B in exergue. 21mm, 4.08g. Ref: RIC V-2 Cyzicus, 118c.
     
  5. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Ah ... the newlyweds, Caracalla and his bride Plautilla! Look how they are shaking hands in unity! And the coins announce their "eternal harmony" and "happy harmony" and how their marriage will "propagate the imperial lineage"! What could possibly go wrong?

    Plautilla CONCORDIAE AETERNAE denarius.jpg Plautilla Concordia Felix Denarius.jpg Plautilla Propago Imperi Denarius.jpg
     
  6. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    A warning to parents who feel the need to control whom your child marries: It can come back and bite you even if you are right. Plautilla was the daughter of Plautianus who was later executed as a traitor to Septimius. I have heard no suggestion that Caracalla (or Geta) wanted to marry anyone but we have ample evidence that Plautilla's father was heavy 'baggage'.
    Caracalla and Plautilla AE38 Stratoniceia / Zeus Panamaros on horse
    pm1415fd3320.jpg
     
  7. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    Great Caligula coins - good theory,
     
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  8. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    Very droll, @Orielensis!
     
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  9. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    Excellent, @Roman Collector - “the perfect couple” indeed,
     
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  10. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    That is one great coin (the commentary ain’t bad either!).
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
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  11. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    I always thought is was kinda cheeky for Allectus to replicate the Peace theme reverses of Carausius after he had just assassinated (I prefer murdered) him.

    RIC V (2), Carausius, Antoninianus, No. 475:

    [​IMG]
    IMP C CARAVSIVS PF AVG .............................. PA - X - AVG | S ..... P (Pax standing facing left)
    Draped, radiate, bust


    RIC V (2), Allectus, Antoninianus, No. 33:

    [​IMG]
    IMP C ALLECTVS PF AVG ................... PA - X - AVG ..... S .... A (Pax
    standing facing left)
    M L in reverse exergue. Cuirassed, radiate, bust
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
  12. Mike Margolis

    Mike Margolis Well-Known Member

    Who is the counterstamp?
     
  13. Mike Margolis

    Mike Margolis Well-Known Member

    This is a great thread. One of the closest items that might match is this RPC of Caracalla. Since he is famous for having devalued the currency and causing inflation the idea that he upheld the values represented with Triptolemus is kind of absurd. Since Triptolemus with the Eleusinian mysteries helped fertilize the land and bring forth greater wealth as the "golden" grain represents. IMG_0902.JPG IMG_0901.JPG
    Tarsus, Cilicia. Caracalla. 198-217. Tetrassarion (Bronze, ), c. 214-217. ΑΥΤ ΚΑΙ Μ ΑΥΡ CΕΥΗΡ[ΟC ΑΝΤΩΝΕΙΝΟC] CΕΒ Π Π Laureate and cuirassed bust of Caracalla to right, seen from behind. Rev. ΑΝΤΩΝΙΑΝΗC CΕΟΥΗΡ....... ΤΑΡCΟΥ ΜΚΑ /ΓΒ Triptolemos, sowing grain with his right hand and holding a grain sack in his left, standing right in car drawn by two serpents to right. SNG Levante 1049. SNG Paris 1509-1510 A rare and most interesting piece of fine style.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
  14. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Concord between the Augusti Pupienus and Balbinus? Apparently each resided in a separate part of the Palace for three months, waiting for the other to strike until they were both overthrown by the Praetorians and their bodies dragged through the streets.

    Balbinus. AD 238.

    Æ Sestertius, 33mm, 22.9g, 12h; Rome mint. 1st emission.

    Obv
    .: IMP CAES D CAEL BALBINVS AVG; Laureate, draped, and cuirassed bust right.

    Rev
    .: CONCORDIA AVGG; Concordia seated left, holding patera and double cornucopia; S C in exergue.

    Reference
    : RIC IVb 22, p. 171.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Also a Caligula Pietas but with a different obverse inscription, and reverse countermarks I have not been able to identify, any ideas?

    The temple before which the sacrifice is being made has been identified as that of the Divine Augustus, built by Tiberius and dedicated by Caligula in 37 AD.
    This coinage commemorates Gaius Caligula's dedication of the Temple and the young emperor's sense of Pietas. He is fulfilling his duty by dedicating the temple to his great-grandfather. Caligula celebrated the dedication with a 2-day horse race and wild beast shows that saw the slaughter of 400 bears and the same number of exotic animals brought from Africa.
    Coins of this type were also struck in 39 and 40 AD (RIC I² Gaius/Caligula 44).

    Æ Sestertius, Rome, 37 - 38 AD
    34 x 35 mm, 26.53 g
    RIC I² Gaius/Caligula 36; BMC Rom I, 41; Cohen 9;

    Ob.: C•CAESAR•AVG•GERMANICVS•P•M•TR• POT Pietas, draped and veiled, seated l., holding patera in outstretched r. hand, l. arm resting on small, facing female statuette (Spes?) on rectangular base. PIETAS in ex.

    Rev.: DIVO - AVG {small lettering} / S-C In front of a garlanded, hexastyle Divus Augustus temple, Caligula togate and veiled standing l. holding patera over garlanded altar; on either side, victimarius, holding bull for sacrifice, and attendant, holding patera

    upload_2020-7-12_20-33-23.png upload_2020-7-12_20-33-33.png
     
  16. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    I have posted this before, but this one always struck me as irony.

    Concordia with Marcus Antonius and Octavian. Kinda bizarre.

    [​IMG]
    Roman Imperiatorial
    Marc Antony & Octavian
    AR Quinarius 1.58g
    Military Mint Gaul
    39BCE
    Concordia r
    Hands clasped caduceus
    Cr-529-4b Sear 1575 Syd-1195
     
  17. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    These coins of Severus Alexander and Maximinus I (Thrax) both have Fides Militvm on the reverse, signifying the loyalty of the army. Which is a bit ironic, given that they were both assassinated by their own troops -- one together with his mother, and the other together with his son.

    Severus Alexander AR Denarius. Obv. Laureate head right, IMP C M AVR SEV ALEXAND AVG. / Rev. Fides standing left holding standard in each hand, FIDES MILITVM. RIC IV-2 139, RSC III 52, Sear RCV II 7864. 19 mm., 2.9 g.

    Severus Alexander jpg version.jpg

    Maximinus I Thrax AR Denarius, 236/38 AD. Obv. Laureate bust right, draped & cuirassed, MAXIMINVS PIVS AVG GERM/ Rev. Fides stdg., facing, head left, holding standard in each hand, FIDES MILITVM. RIC IV-2 18A, RSC III 9, Sear RCV III 8307. 20 mm., 2.77 g.

    Maximinus I Thrax AR Denarius RIC 18A, RSC 9.jpg
     
  18. octavius

    octavius Well-Known Member

    Here's a denarius of Nero with his mother Agrippina - would ordinarily seem quite affectionate , had he not murdered her.

    also, an antoninianus of Pupienus with reverse of "caritas mutua augustorum" which translates as "the mutual love of the augusti". As Coin Hunter mentioned - they each expected the other to attempt assassination, and they were both killed by the soldiers before they could succeed in killing each other.

    s2043LG.jpg bTs25DcKEa98jwQ6L3om8zMZ6G7f4s.jpg
     
  19. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    All of the common Caligula types come in versions mentioning Germanicus and others naming him as grandson of Augustus (DIVI AVG PRON). I do not know which was first or what precipitated the change.
     
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  20. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    Naturally, as is my bent, I really like the clear lettering on that coin. Here is the other legend style commonly found on the coins of Caligula:

    9B01A8C0-CCEC-4DE2-9094-BCB1763D3F67.jpeg
    C CAESAR AVG GERMANICVS PON M TR POT
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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