STOLEN $1000 LGS - Please Keep An Eye Out

Discussion in 'Paper Money' started by funkee, Jul 1, 2014.

  1. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

    I agree it smells fishy on the sellers part. To me, the sellers long explanation in their response seems to cast more doubt than clarity. They imply it wouldn't make sense to ship an empty package because they would still have to pay eBay $170 and wait weeks. That doesn't seem so bad when you potentially stand to gain $1700 (minus $170)!!!

    They also claim to have been selling for "2 years or longer" and have sold "thousands of dollars in silver coins...", yet they don't know any better than to post an actual photo of the $1,000 note they are selling??? By their own admission that is a tough loss to swallow. Which to me negates the excuse that they are just some rich person that is too lazy to bother with the time to photograph a $1000 note. I would really love to hear their explanation on the wrong photo issue. I really would.

    Of course this is all speculation and doesn't mean with 100% certainty that the seller has engaged in fraud. But I would bet $1000 on it. :p
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2014
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  3. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor

    I was a little surprised that the USPS does use x-ray machines on mail ingoing to zip 202-205 area. Imagine the fun of using a x-ray machine in off hours on high postage packages if you worked there. Of course it wouldn't apply in this case with paper, but maybe with coin shape and size metallic objects.
     
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  4. AWORDCREATED

    AWORDCREATED Hardly Noticeable

    Somewhere, dunno where, there is a tin foil hat in your size just awaiting :D
     
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  5. funkee

    funkee Tender, Legal

    I got my money back. The seller then filed a claim and I got a letter from USPS instructing me to drop off the package at a post office, to get it to the Postal Inspectors. I did as instructed.

    A few weeks later USPS denied the seller's insurance claim, based on the grounds that USPS insurance doesn't cover cash. Even though it's a numismatic item, it's still considered cash and they will not touch it.

    USPS insurance serves no purpose with currency, except to call out that there's something valuable inside. Some people argue that USPS will use more care when handling insured items, but I think that's nonsense unless we're talking Registered Mail.

    The package had a $29+ postage label. You betcha that's gonna tempt some unethical people.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2014
  6. josh's coins

    josh's coins Well-Known Member

    So you got your money back but the note never turned up since it is likely a usps employee stole it. Then they wouldn't honor the insurance because they considered the $1000 note as cash? if the people at USPS had any brains they would know that while a $1000 note is still legal tender one does not use it as legal tender because it is worth more than face value.
    @funkee A lot of people got screwed in this case at least you got your money back.
     
  7. MEC2

    MEC2 Enormous Member

    There was never a note in the package to begin with... I'll wager $1000.
     
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  8. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

    Although there is no way to know for sure, if I had to bet $1000 I would bet there wasn't a note in the package either.

    The biggest reason... seller cropped a photo of another note that was on the internet. Who does that with a $1000 note they're selling?

    Answer= someone who never had one to begin with.
     
  9. NorthKorea

    NorthKorea Dealer Member is a made up title...

    Given all the evidence presented in this thread, I would think the seller is guilty of mail fraud and insurance fraud. If he's been selling for years, he would know that Registered Mail for a $1700 insured item would be cheaper than Priority Mail Insured. Add to that, it'd actually be covered.

    For the numismatic v cash argument by the Postal Service, I've always wondered: Do graded coins/notes count as collectibles, rather than cash? It would be nice to know that I can insure $500 coins through USPS insurance, rather than needing to use (at that level) pricey Registered Mail.
     
  10. funkee

    funkee Tender, Legal

    http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/609.htm

    4.1

    Insurance for loss or damage to insured, COD, or Registered Mail within the amount covered by the fee paid or the indemnity limits for Priority Mail Express (under 4.2) is payable for the following:

    4.1.g

    For stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value; the fair market value is determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors’ newsletters and trade papers. The date of the fair market value determination must be current and prior to the mailing date.

    4.1.o

    Except for Registered Mail, the maximum indemnity for negotiable items (defined as instruments that can be converted to cash without resort to forgery), currency, or bullion, is $15.00.

    4.1.d.6

    Face value of negotiable documents that cannot be reconstructed up to the amount of insurance coverage bought, but not to exceed the $25,000 maximum amount of insurance coverage available if sent by Registered Mail.

    Bottom line is, use Registered Mail if using USPS. If it's valued over $25,000 I would use a private courier.

    I think that FedEx and UPS are more reliable, because they have shareholders to answer to. Consumer trust is really important to sustain a profitable operation.

    But with USPS, they'll stick around as long as they get federal funding, even if the public hates their guts.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2014
  11. Opens an interesting dialogue about the pro-s and con-s of insuring these packages in the first place. Sort of like putting valuables in a safe in your house...yes, a safe offers some protection. But it's like a big billboard to the robbers, hey, here is the valuables, come rob me. Damn if you do, damn if you don't.
    Personally, I'm starting to think that stealth might be more safe than insurance on some of this stuff. Too much advertising that, yah, this is something valuable, rob me.
    :cigar::(
     
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  12. krispy

    krispy krispy

    Everyone expects others to be responsible for the security of parcels in transit and the contents, yet more and more carriers want greater profit and zero liability (paying out claims on losses). That's reflective of the cuts made to services in business across industries. Of course, with cuts like that the risk of loss increases for the individuals using those services. Every company seems to have a dearth of Terms & Conditions they impose on individuals yet until those tables are turned businesses will remain secure in wiping their hands clean of risk and responsibility when a problem arises or someone finds a way to cheat the system causing distress and financial loss on the individual.

    Certainly we must insure the parcels of high value, but we entrust the carrier to fulfill the services with full responsibility that we ourselves are charged with in transferring the property to the new owner. It is indeed a mistake that postage is displayed to the advantage of a nefarious package handler who knows how to game the system, but insured parcels and postage can easily be disguised behind modern postage and labeling systems (think QR Code, barcodes, scan-able printed encoded information). There's no reason to display such things that seem only to attract unwanted attention. Simple is best. Discreet or plain (uniformed) packaging for every kind of parcel is a good way to protect parcels.

    Another issue with carrier cutbacks are overworked and under supervised employees. Cut back service at the P.O. and the result of fewer days of delivery service means your parcel is in their possession longer with more chances of being exploited and picked through. You expect such insured parcels to be kept secure in facilities and vehicles when not in motion just as you expect it while it is moving through the sort and en route to delivery. Fewer humans monitoring security of insured parcels means more time and freedom for a dishonest employee to breech our trust and security. Overworked and understaffed employees can also lead to fatigue, anger and perhaps thoughts to take advantage of customers' parcels.

    The shipping labels sellers use printed online via eBay/PayPal have options for NOT displaying postage value, yet eBay includes their logo on there, too, so it's quite easy to see the source of a parcel when its en route and to make a reasonable guess by its size and parcel weight, and if insured, that one might score a valuable collectible or piece of merchandise by selecting such a parcel.

    Apart from this thread's case, I'm sure there's more to the whole game of shipping insurance, security, who is responsible, how and why certain things are not allowed coverage and the decisions on risk and profit why companies take their stances, and that it's just a more complex issue, but these are some thoughts about this that I've thought about.

    I've taken delivery of parcels from well known auctions companies which were of considerable value and yet they show up in my mailbox, left by the regular carrier, without signature required or having taken the time to ring my doorbell, sent in flat rate USPS Priority envelopes. Inside the envelope they use a more rigid envelope for support and it is unaddressed and sealed, and over the seal a sticker indicating that if lost/found to route back to the auction house.

    Recently, I had a case with the USPS tracking App, which showed that my parcel was delivered on and at a specified date/time. There was no parcel in my mail box and I was instantly worried with no way to locate it nor a human at the PO for help. I printed out the tracking details, posted it on my mailbox for the carrier and logged a written complaint of carrier service as well as one for a missing parcel online with the USPS. The very next day, the note I left to the carrier was gone and my parcel mysteriously delivered in my mailbox.

    Where was it over night? Was it in the carriers bag? In a postal truck? At the P.O.? In my neighbors box? Most likely it was locked up in a green USPS mailbox-shaped street storage container ready for the actual letter carrier to take it to my door. That's very misleading and poor service as well as interuptive of an individuals personal and private business. We can and do track things for security and privacy as much as timing in a business sense, especially when urgency is a factor.

    The online complaint to the USPS took 4 days for a response, during which time there was NO auto-notification of the case being opened online. When the response came, the USPS local branch personnel for customer service issues took zero responsibility and didn't even mention the disparity of the tracking data in the App to the customer's report of actual delivery date/time, and claimed a discussion with the letter carrier proved the parcel was delivered. There was no name, phone number nor link for customer recourse or to refute the matter further. Case closed, business wins. Yes, I got the parcel safe and secure, but that is not the kind of service I paid for.

    Some folks say don't get flustered about such a thing, but I come to expect more professionalism as would others of me in my work and there is a matter of maintaining that level of quality of service which only seems to decline, so a matter of principal is attached to such things for me, and why I share this story at length.
     
  13. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title] Supporter

    I agree...the note was never there.
     
  14. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    You're free to think that, but I would strongly advise reading FedEx's insurance conditions before attempting to insure coins.

    I'd advise reading UPS's conditions, as well, but the last time I tried I couldn't make heads or tails out of them. If I get some time, I'll try to dig up the part that baffled me.
     
  15. funkee

    funkee Tender, Legal

    I'm not talking about insurance claims. I'm talking about employee theft. If there is theft, a private company like FedEx and UPS will be more inclined to discipline employees, because they have shareholders to answer to in order to stay in business. Whereas with USPS, their employees can steal and steal, and USPS will still be around.
     
  16. krispy

    krispy krispy

    USPS does contract much of its parcel handling by private carriers and increasingly takes on delivery, particularly for residential customers, from private carriers such as FedEx (SmartPost) and UPS (SurePost). With that much ambiguity, there's not really more than an illusion of safety no matter which outfit you start your parcel out with. By sheer volume, statistically, something is going to go wrong, be it accident, neglect or wrongdoing. The more any one person employs these services the more likely one is to encounter a problem, especially where valuables are concerned. There's not much other way to go about courier services, though you might consider third party insurance with a company that would provide the specific kind of coverage you need, though the cost to maintain such coverage may not be something most individuals wish to shoulder to offset a few losses over time. In the case of this missing $1000 note, it appears to be as others stated, that the note never existed, which negates blame on the carrier.
     
  17. MEC2

    MEC2 Enormous Member

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Although I sort of think I agree with the gist of your post...?
     
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  18. krispy

    krispy krispy

    Ack! :dead: I was thinking deluge, but dearth went in by err. Thanks for pointing out the mistake even if it was obnoxiously done with a bunch of animated gif-spam, and egotistically self-congratulatory at that! Yikes!:yack:

    Though you managed your way to the end of the post, likely looking for other things to exploit going by your past treatment towards me, and without adding anything on topic to the thread, if ever exhaustion besets you in a forum post, just ignore it and move along, kiddo.

    Line breaks like this are put in to give you a break and to digest the thoughts being shared. Remember, no one forced you to read the post or this forum, so stop complaining about it's length, which even asked to be excused for it to any readers, and not a reason for you to be rude.

    Everyone makes mistakes, sort like your non-question sentence fragment that trails off with a piece of punctuation used to denote confusion or a question. In your case, clearly it's confusion which reigns. Yes, it was a post. But, only you can decide if you agree with others' posts or not, so it's no question and doesn't represent a rhetorical one either.

    If you'd care to elaborate (give details, explain, divulge information, at length, if you'll risk it), which parts you do or don't agree with, then spending at least as much time drafting those thoughts of yours up and posting them in as long as it took you to assemble the snarky animated gif reply, might earn you a place in this discussion and maintain on-topic discussion and allow thoughtful points to be made about the greater topics being raised.

    At this point, all we can expect from you is Twitter-sized one-liners of a short-attention span, or is that spam(?), manner. Forum posts haven't a pruned character limitation.

    Thanks again for helping me clarify what I meant by correcting the lexical error.

    Regards. :)
     
  19. funkee

    funkee Tender, Legal

    That's enough children. You're going to get this thread locked.
     
  20. krispy

    krispy krispy

    Being condescending towards others only adds fuel to the fire, funkee. :)
     
  21. funkee

    funkee Tender, Legal

    To put it bluntly, it's childish to argue over meaningless things on the internet. I could flood this page with more memes and gifs, but I will forgo that pleasure.
     
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