Still trying to learn

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by 1stSgt22, Apr 15, 2021.

  1. 1stSgt22

    1stSgt22 I'm just me!

    Still trying to learn to accurately identify doubled die coins. Please give me some feedback about this 2020 bat quarter.

    WIN_20210415_20_03_18_Pro.jpg WIN_20210415_20_04_10_Pro.jpg WIN_20210415_20_00_32_Pro.jpg WIN_20210415_20_01_06_Pro.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
    SensibleSal66 likes this.
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  3. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    Best Answer
    What is a "Doubled Die?"

    A doubled die coin has nothing to do with the multiple striking of a coin as many believe. A doubled die coin is the result of using a working die(s) which has/have been improperly made. The manner in which a coin is produced is the result of using a specially prepared set of dies which have been mechanically created to provide the desired images we see on a given coin. These images are engraved on a "special metal blank" which, when completed, will be used to create multiple "working dies" (obverse and reverse) which will be the ones used to strike a round, flat piece of metal with the images contained on the end of these dies. The process of creating the working dies uses these "master engraved dies" to force their image, termed "a squeeze", onto/into another piece of metal. Prior to the 2000's or so (varies per coin value), the "squeeze" process involved pressing the image twice or more when creating the "working die" and this point is where "Doubled Die(s)" is/are created if the "second squeeze" is slightly out of alignment relative to the "first squeeze". The result is a misaligned image on the working die(s) which will be transferred to the coin blank in the coin production process.

    Step 1: Engrave "Master."
    Step 2: "Squeeze" "Master" image onto working die(s).
    Step 3: Second "Squeeze" of working die(s). * Second squeeze, out of alignment, creates "Doubled Working Die(s)."
    Step 4: "Doubled Working Die(s) in coin production, create "Doubled Die(s) coins.

    Is a "Doubled Die" coin an "error" or the "result of an error?"
    IMO, the doubled die coin is the result of an improperly produced working die which creates a coin variation of the required result.

    What are "Errors?" What ever today's definition happens to be.
     
  4. derkerlegand

    derkerlegand Well-Known Member

    I believe that's machine doubling. Kinda like the "chatter" of the die. A true double die wouldn't have a shelved appearance because the die would have made two distinct strikes, and both were on the same level. Anyway, someone else will probably give you a better and correct explanation shortly.:rolleyes:
     
  5. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    MD-Graphic_2.jpg Yes. Machine doubling or Mechanical Doubling or Strike doubling . All the same thing . :cool:
     
  6. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    Best Answer
    What is a "Doubled Die?"

    A doubled die coin has nothing to do with the multiple striking of a coin as many believe. A doubled die coin is the result of using a working die(s) which has/have been improperly made. The manner in which a coin is produced is the result of using a specially prepared set of dies which have been mechanically created to provide the desired images we see on a given coin. These images are engraved on a "special metal blank" which, when completed, will be used to create multiple "working dies" (obverse and reverse) which will be the ones used to strike a round, flat piece of metal with the images contained on the end of these dies. The process of creating the working dies uses these "master engraved dies" to force their image, termed "a squeeze", onto/into another piece of metal. Prior to the 2000's or so (varies per coin value), the "squeeze" process involved pressing the image twice or more when creating the "working die" and this point is where "Doubled Die(s)" is/are created if the "second squeeze" is slightly out of alignment relative to the "first squeeze". The result is a misaligned image on the working die(s) which will be transferred to the coin blank in the coin production process.

    Step 1: Engrave "Master."
    Step 2: "Squeeze" "Master" image onto working die(s).
    Step 3: Second "Squeeze" of working die(s). * Second squeeze, out of alignment, creates "Doubled Working Die(s)."
    Step 4: "Doubled Working Die(s) in coin production, create "Doubled Die(s) coins.

    Is a "Doubled Die" coin an "error" or the "result of an error?"
    IMO, the doubled die coin is the result of an improperly produced working die which creates a coin variation of the required result.

    What are "Errors?" What ever today's definition happens to be.
     
  7. expat

    expat Remember you are unique, just like everyone else Supporter

    Well done Robert, nicely explained.
    For me the easiest way to differentiate between error and variety is;
    VARIETY = DURING HUBBING OF THE DIES
    ERROR = DURING THE COINING PROCESS FROM BLANK TO STRUCK COIN
     
    1stSgt22 and Robert Ransom like this.
  8. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    And the newbies will say???????????? ;)
     
    SensibleSal66 likes this.
  9. Chip Kirkpatrick

    Chip Kirkpatrick Well-Known Member

    Don’t sweat it. I’ve been screwing around with this for a couple of years and still can’t get a handle on it. Lol. Good luck.
     
    1stSgt22 and SensibleSal66 like this.
  10. JCro57

    JCro57 Making Errors Great Again

    If you truly want to actually learn the difference between a doubled die and machine doubling, I suggest people stop looking through thousands of coins and start picking up books and resources to learn the difference
     
    Cheech9712, JeffC, eddiespin and 3 others like this.
  11. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    Where's the fun in that? Just keep heckling the CT folks and ask them. ;)
     
    eddiespin and JCro57 like this.
  12. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    I just received my order of Stan McDonald's U.S. Error Coin Guide 2020. It has almost all the information on various error coins, I am very pleased with the book. Good luck
     
    1stSgt22 and potty dollar 1878 like this.
  13. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Well-Known Member

    That last name tells me all I need to know about him:):).
     
  14. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    And just so the newbies understand, no, you can’t pick this up at the McDonald’s drive-up window.
     
  15. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Well-Known Member

    I vote MD on your coin.
     
    1stSgt22 likes this.
  16. 1stSgt22

    1stSgt22 I'm just me!

    Robert, thanks for your first reply. That was an excellent explanation and I really appreciate it. I think that may stop me from heckling anyone about this in the future!;)
     
  17. Mike Thornton

    Mike Thornton Learning something new everyday.

    MD, IMO. Good luck.
     
    1stSgt22 likes this.
  18. JCro57

    JCro57 Making Errors Great Again

    This book is even better to learn about errors...

    received_438994760435845.jpeg

    received_141623410822361.jpeg
     
    SPP Ottawa likes this.
  19. derkerlegand

    derkerlegand Well-Known Member

    Very well explained. I've finally gotten it! Thanks!
     
  20. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    I was interested in Cronin's book but not willing to pay $58.00+ shipping for it. I paid $8.97+ 3.00 shipping, that's a far cry from Cronin's book. I'm extremely satisfied with McDonald's book and wish you the same with yours.
     
  21. mike estes

    mike estes Well-Known Member

    goodmorning 1stSgt22, i believe the guys above my post have answered your questions and since I'm still considered a new comer to this wonderful hobby I'm gonna save this (your) thread to my computer for reference. im gonna check out that book to. good luck to you sir...
     
  22. JCro57

    JCro57 Making Errors Great Again

    The book is not $58 shipping for U.S. orders...just so you all know. Orders outside the U.S. involve higher fees as they can't be sent with a cheap "media mail" price. Several books were shipped to Canada, and also Japan, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Greece, Dubai, Italy, Lebanon, and Madagascar.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2021
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