steel pennies

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by mercury, May 8, 2004.

  1. mercury

    mercury New Member

    you may be right, i wonder what the moderators and users think.
     
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  3. chevy

    chevy New Member

    the 1864 bronze indian cent with L on ribbon, most likely

    it can be worth over 55,000 dollars in proof condition
     
  4. rolltide

    rolltide Member

    Well the rarest Lincoln is the 1943 Copper....but if you're only talking "official" coins (not sure what I mean by that) then it'd be the 1909 S VDB like Chevy said.
     
  5. mercury

    mercury New Member

    how would you think that the 1909 S VDB is worth?
     
  6. rolltide

    rolltide Member

  7. rolltide

    rolltide Member

    The 1909-s VDB...if in at least good shape...is worth between $400 - $1500....sometimes higher. The reason it's worth so much is that it's the first year of the lincoln cent and only 484,000 were made. Very hard to find.
     
  8. mercury

    mercury New Member

    those were great pictures! its really helpful
     
  9. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    As I mentioned in another thread - the value of a coin does not always equate to its rarity.

    As an example - the 1909-S VDB may arguably be the most well known of the Lincoln cents - and in some grades it is the most valuable. But because it was hoarded in huge numbers when it was issued - in higher grades its value and its rarity is surpassed by several other dates.

    I'm using Coin World's Coin Values here for comparison purposes only.

    In MS60 -

    1909-S VDB - $1200

    1914-D - $1400

    1917 doubled die - $1500

    1922-D - missing D die pair 2 - $5500

    There are many other years in even higher grades and in Proof examples as well that far surpass the S VDB in value. These are but a few examples.
     
  10. National dealer

    National dealer New Member

    Hold on guys,

    1909-S VDB? They can be found anywhere. 484,000 minted. Expensive yes, but not rare.
    1922 Plain
    1955 Double Die

    For the most valuable Lincoln cent.

    1974 Aluminum. Just don't buy or sell in the US as they are illegal.
     
  11. rolltide

    rolltide Member

    Are we talking rarity or value? Weren't around 7 million 1922 plains made? I could be wrong...I'm going by the beginner book.
     
  12. mercury

    mercury New Member

    can you name some coins that are more rare but worth less money, coins that are less rare but worth more?
     
  13. chevy

    chevy New Member

    Thats A Tricky Question
     
  14. mercury

    mercury New Member

    let me make it simple, are there any coins that are more rare but not worth much
     
  15. National dealer

    National dealer New Member

    No. Rare is always going to equal valuable.

    Something is rare because it is not easily obtainable.
     
  16. pog

    pog New Member

    i think rare+value (to the person who is willing to pay whatever)=valuable.
     
  17. chevy

    chevy New Member

    i think what you were looking for there was a coin you could buy for just under or over 100 dollars that is an extreme rarity. There is no such thing because of supply and demand. If a coin is very rare, then only a limited number were made. In this scenario, the supply is down and since the demand is up, the two factors cause the price to go up. Way, way up in some cases.
     
  18. National dealer

    National dealer New Member

    Rare does not always equal number made. It equals number available.

    Take a look at a few Morgans with mintages in the hundreds of thousands. By minting numbers this should be rare. They are not. The treasury released many in the 60's and 70's, so they are plentiful.

    With coins, it is a matter of research to find what coins are actually rare, and those that are overpriced. Many early coins and tokens are a lot more rare than most collectors realize.
     
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I understand what you mean mercury - but your question, as chevy said, is a bit tricky.

    You see - just about everybody has a different definition of rare. In my opinion the word is used way too much when people talk about coins. Seems like everybody says this is rare or that is rare. But what exactly is rare ? How would you define it ?

    Is a coin with 5 examples known rare ? Is one with 25 rare ? How about one with 3000 examples known - is that rare too ? And then it depends on several other things as well - like how many were originally minted and how many survive today. See what I mean - it's not always easy to define the term.

    Collectors have struggled with this for a long time. And over the years there have been developed what are known as rarity scales. But there are a great many rarity scales - some apply to only US coinage. Others apply to the coinage of Great Britain or France. They even have rarity scales for tokens. So first of all you have to limit what you are talking about. But in this case I'll assume you are talking about US coins.

    This is the rarity scale developed by Sidney Sheldon - the same man who developed the modern grading process and scale.

    R8 = 1-3 known (estimated), "Unique or Nearly Unique"
    R7 = 4-12 known, "Extremely Rare"
    R6 = 13-30 known, "Very Rare"
    R5 = 31-75 known, "Rare"
    R4 = 76-200 known, "Very Scarce"
    R3 = 201-500 known, "Scarce"
    R2 = 501-1250 known, "Uncommon"
    R1 = over 1251 known, "Common"

    This is the Universal Rarity Scale which was actuall developed by a group of well known collectors & dealers but is generally attributed to Q. David Bowers.

    URS-0 None known
    URS-1 1 known, unique
    URS-2 2 known
    URS-3 3 or 4 known
    URS-4 5 to 8 known
    URS-5 9 to 16 known
    URS-6 17 to 32 known
    URS-7 33 to 64 known
    URS-8 65 to 125 known
    URS-9 126 to 250 known
    URS-10 251 to 500 known
    URS-11 501 to 1,000 known
    URS-12 1,001 to 2,000 known
    URS-13 2,001 to 4,000 known
    URS-14 4,001 to 8,000 known
    URS-15 8,001 to 16,000 known
    URS-16 16,001 to 32,000 known
    URS-17 32,001 to 65,000 known
    URS-18 65,001 to 125,000 known
    URS-19 125,001 to 250,000 known
    URS-20 250,001 to 500,000 known

    As you can see - there is quite a difference. But to get more to the point of answering your question - when talking about US coins - if the coin is even scarce - it will usually cost quite a bit. This is because collecting in the US quite popular - there are a great many collectors and just about all of them want the scarce or rare examples. And just about anybody who has a computer or cares to visit the library can find out what the key coins ( most scarce ) are for any series. Just like you're trying to do now. So the end result is that - no - there are no rare US coins that don't cost much.

    Now if you were to venture into world coinage - this is not always the case. As I have mentioned before on this Forum - I own a particular 4 reale coin minted in 1769 at Mexico City and there are only 4 known to exist. I call that rare. But that particular coin only cost me a bit over $300. I managed to get such a deal because I study coins and read every book about them I can my hands on. So I knew what the coin was when I saw it - nobody else did. I bought the coin on ebay.

    Just last week - I purchased from a dealer friend of mine a coin that is so rare it is not even listed in the books. At least no book I have been able to find. The coin is a 1782 ducat minted at the Salzburg mint in Germany to commemorate the 1200 anniversary of the Salzburg Bishopric. But this particular coin was struck in silver. The regular coin of the same date and design - that is in the books - was struck in gold. That's what makes this coin so rare - it is what is called an off metal strike. The coin is listed in several auction catalogs going back over several decades - so I know it is genuine. But to the best of my knowledge nobody knows how many were struck or even exist today. There may be 50 - there may only be 1. But there are certainly not very many or it would be listed in the coin books.

    The best part is - this coin cost me $125. Now that is what I call an example of coins that are more rare but don't cost much.
     
  20. National dealer

    National dealer New Member

    Each coin series has what is known as a key date, or a semi key date. These are almost always the rarest coins in that particular series.
    Some because of low mintages, some because of the great silver-gold melt downs, and some because of the coins lost to history.
    Other coins in the series will have unknown rarities in them. If you take the time to do a little research on the series you like, you will find that some dates are tough to find even though the prices do not reflect this. Others will be condition rarities. These are issues that are known to be weakly struck or poorly struck. When you find a sharp struck example, it will command a premium. The registry sets are a prime example of this.
     
  21. pog

    pog New Member

    i was looking in my red book to see if i could find a rare coin. it didnt take me long. now this is my opinion based solely on the prices. the 1783 (bit) silver, with decorated edge, nova constellatio pattern sold in a garret sale in 1979 for 97.5k to me thats rare and if i could afford it i probably would have paid more because i like the coin.
     
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