Featured Standing Liberty Quarters---The Full Head Debate

I have no problem with the 1920-S costing more than the 1928-D. It does and it should. The non full head 20-S is $900 compared to $200 for the 28-D in MS63. So the price multiplier is 4.5X in non full head but jumps to 10X in FH when the populations (rarity) are actually closer. Doesn't make sense. IMO supply is about the same and so is demand. I can't believe that there are date collectors of SLQ's that collect non full head coins except when it comes time to fill the 1920-S spot, they must have a FH specimen. The number of date SLQ collectors is essentially fixed for all dates and I promise that nobody is buying the 20-S as a type coin. So if the demand is the same for FH examples of every date, then there is no reason that coins of similar rarity should have such a price difference.

All I know is that I am glad that I am not a strike conscious collector. Give me all the non full head rainbow toned SLQ's at the discount please. My problem is I don't like MS63 20th century coins. I need gems. It is going to cost me plenty I think.

 

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I have been doing some searching on this, you have me really intrigued

From what I can tell, the reason that the 20 is worth so much more is not only perception, it's because, irrespective of mintages and population reports, it appears to be a much scarcer coin on the market and also because it is a dramatically scarcer coin in higher grades.

I searched Heritage's site for both coins, in the past 14 years they have handled 5 1920-S FH MS63 coins. Search for all sold 1920-S SLQs, on page 2 of the results you will be looking at MS63 coins.

Now search for 1928-D coins, you have to get to page 7 of the search results and there's not many being sold by them in ANY grade, the last one was over 5 years ago with a total of 5 in a similar timeframe.

Sales in the 2000s also show that these guys bring way over $1,000 so that $900 figure may be inaccurate, from the looks of things I would expect that in an open market you may have to pay double or triple that $900 figure.

However, here's what separates the coins and why those population reports seem to be very misleading. In the same search (And I may have missed a few either way) I counted, from a quick scan, a total of 63 Full Head 1928-D coins that Heritage has sold while in ANY grade, Heritage has only sold 16 1920-S coins.

1920-S, 237 coins sold of any grade

MS-67 FH 0
MS-66 FH 1
MS-65 FH 4
MS-64 FH 5
MS-63 FH 5

1928-D, 419 coins sold of any grade

MS-67 FH 3
MS-66 FH 17
MS-65 FH 14
MS-64 FH 24
MS-63 FH 5

I think that the 20S has a comparable population because of recracking, but that is just a theory. Perhaps the actual populations are similar, but the 28Ds just get traded frequently. However, they appear to be much more common on the market (In comparison, these are both scarce coins of course) and, most importantly, the 28D appears to be much more commonly found as a slabbed Full Head coin in higher grades of 65+

I figure that since the 20S is so uncommon, that when they do show up people are willing to pay big money for them and that they will happily buy a 63 and pay up for it, looking at Heritage's history, if you only bought from them, you would have had, since 1994, only 11 chances to buy a higher grade coin than an MS63.

However, when it comes to the 1928D, you would have had 5 chances to buy an MS63 in the same timeframe (For higher than $900 on most occasions I might add) but 58 chances to buy a higher grade coin.

Sorry for rambling on a bit!

 

On the price differences you also have to take in acount that not all FHs are created equal , plenty of the so called FH coins are vastly inferior to a really well struck FH , FS and Full chainmail coin and thus the fully struck coin can't be listed in a chart or in the average price paid .
rzage

 

I think I will have to look at the PCGS populations for these coins. They might have a drastic affect on the prices depending on the populations.

 

I must have misunderstood you earlier.. thought you said that the PCGS populations were comparable.

Mintage of the 20 in question was about 4x that of the 28 in question yet it seems far scarcer from searching the usual auction results databases.. go figure.

 

The total population of the 1920-S in MS63 FH is:

PCGS:-----14/51
NGC:------11/29
Total:-----25/80

The total population of the 1928-D in MS63 FH is:

PCGS:-----14/75
NGC:------4/54
Total:-----18/129

While I recognize that the 1920-S is certainly much more rare than the 1928-D, I just can't understand why the price difference is 10X. One of these two coins is off IMO.

Wow, I just figured it out. Look at the auction archives of the 1928-D FH in both MS63. The last 1928-D MS63 FH sold for $1500 over 7 years ago. The current Numismedia Wholesale price of $690 is just wrong. No way one of these should sell for less than $1000.

 

It's not really that huge a difference, not 10x.. there's no way you're going to actually buy an MS63FH 1928-D for $900. Forget what the books say, see what people are paying! (I work in the car business, the books are inaccurate I look at auction reports

The last MS63FH sold at HA for about $1500 and that was 5 years ago.

The SLQ Master himself has an MS64 for sale, $3,900

http://www.slqs.com/html/auction/encapsulation detail.asp?Item=5120

Here's Heritage's Auction results on FH 1920-Ss and 1928-Ds....

1920-S, 237 coins sold of any grade (w or w/o FH)

MS-67 FH 0
MS-66 FH 1
MS-65 FH 4
MS-64 FH 5
MS-63 FH 5

1928-D, 419 coins sold of any grade (w or w/o FH)

MS-67 FH 3
MS-66 FH 17
MS-65 FH 14
MS-64 FH 24
MS-63 FH 5

two things to pay attention to....

First, there's about 4x as many 28-Ds in FH that have actually showed up at auction.

Second, less than 10% of the 1928-D Full Head Coins are MS63, the second lowest grade ever handled by HA (There was 1 AU58 FH) while MS63 coins are 33.3% of the sold Full Head 1920-S coins.

If I was a buyer for a Mint State FH 1920-S I'd darn near take what I could get while on a 1928-D I can be a bit choosy, wait a year or so and an MS65 is going to turn up for sale.

FWIW, I would expect to pay ca $2,000+ for an MS63FH 1928-D.

 

Yeah, I agree. The price guide for the 1928-D is wrong and previous auction prices indicate that.

 

While I tend to agree with you, please be aware that by 1929 there was little detail left on the hub, and the strikes are both fairly good for the date (the 1918 is better FOR THE DATE than the 1929). Said a bit differently, it is unfair to compare the strike of the 1918 with the strike of the 1929, as even if they were both 100% struck, the 1918 will show more detail than the 1929.

Respectfully...Mike

 

Mike,

I agree with you as well, those were just the first two pictures that I could steal showing what I meant

Later coins are tough, and SLQs are a bear to begin with. I'm holding a VF/XF 1928 in my hand right now that's showing as much if not more detail than that 1929.

 

Good point Doug!

 

Doug's right. I collect Postal History.. I can think of a few covers that I would love to own, 2 of them in particular have traded hands on average once every 30 years or so.

 

This Thread was really helpful, even after 9 years.

 

Yeah, ya can't 'Necro' a classic........education in it's truest form.

 

I found this thread on a Google search, lol.

 

Things is out there.....thank heavens.

 

Just getting into higher-grade SLQs so this thread was a godsend. I also found it via G. Wasn't even sure I was registered at this site, but I was

 

Yes, this was a great thread on the FH SLQs.

 

I never saw this thread back than, it sure was a great read.