Stack’s Bowers Vault … no thanks

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by calcol, Feb 28, 2024.

  1. calcol

    calcol Supporter! Supporter

    SB is offering a new service called Vault. They claim they’ll store your coins securely and return them to you on request. Several things about it make me say no.

    They claim the coins will be insured. Turns out the insurance is through their commercial insurer. As best I can tell, you don’t have a policy directly with the insurance company; it’s actually SB that’s insured. So, if SB should declare bankruptcy and the vault is empty, is the insurance company gonna pay ya? Nah!

    BTW, the Vault location is in Dallas, not in S. Calif.

    Then SB claims that purchased coins sent directly to the Vault won’t have sales tax. Huh? Nice trick. One way I can think this might work is if SB is effectively the purchaser and they claim the coins are being held for resale. Or maybe they can convince state tax authorities that it’s the ship-to location that matters and not the state of the purchaser. Would that work? Maybe there’s some other trick I don’t know about. But if it works, it could be a neat tax-avoidance scheme. Have your purchases shipped to the Vault and then have the Vault ship them to you.

    Want your coins back out of the Vault? They’re gonna charge you as much as 5% of market value to get your coins back.

    Want to know more? Use the link.

    Gallienus, MIGuy, Tall Paul and 2 others like this.
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    JCKTJK Well-Known Member

    if you don't hold it, ya don't own it:happy:
  4. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect since I was a baby

    I'd never buy anything that I don't have full control of. If one is that worried about their coins being stolen, buy a fire safe, a pit bull, and some dynamite.
  5. Barney McRae

    Barney McRae Supporter! Supporter

    Not that long ago the Feds raided a security storage place with vaults under the guise of looking for drug money launderers. It was in California, they seized the contents of every vault without due process.
    "cough cough". Yeah, totally credible. :muted:
  6. numist

    numist Member Supporter

  7. masterswimmer

    masterswimmer A Caretaker, can't take it with me

    Hmmmm, buy a product, any product, then tell the seller, naaahhh, I don't want to take possession, you 'hold' on to it for me. I'm going with John Pinette on this one.....

    JCKTJK, MIGuy, wxcoin and 2 others like this.
  8. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    I sure wouldn’t be interested in anything like this, from them or anyone else.
    JCKTJK and Barney McRae like this.
  9. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Oh, look, they think they've invented something that they aren't calling a "brokerage". I wonder how long they suppose they'll stay clear of the associated regulations.
    LakeEffect, MIGuy and wxcoin like this.
  10. Jersey magic man

    Jersey magic man Supporter! Supporter

    RIP. Funny guy! "Get out of the line!!!"
  11. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Brother can you spare a trime? Supporter

    They're pitching it as safer than a bank safety deposit box.

    They may be trying a quiet end around the regulations for IRAs. If you retain custody, you can't put precious metals, collectible coins, art, etc. into an IRA. A custodian could use this service indirectly on behalf of their clients. But I would be concerned that I would have no ownership of the vaulted items.

    Just remember, the large print giveth and the small print taketh away... "No withdrawal fees when sent to Stack’s Bowers Galleries Auction or sold to Stack’s Bowers Galleries."

    I also find it troubling that I can't easily find the terms and conditions for the vault.
    Tall Paul likes this.
  12. 7Jags

    7Jags Well-Known Member

    IMHO, always a problem when something bucks up against common sense....

    "Run, Forrest, run"!
  13. rooman9

    rooman9 Lovin Shiny Things

    Services like this are very popular in the trading card sphere. I've noticed the coin market taking ideas from trading cards more often lately. At least for trading cards it's a nice service if you're just buying and selling cards at the same auction house. However, I'm in agreement that you don't fully own it until the coin is in your possession. "Possession is 9/10th of the law."
  14. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Brother can you spare a trime? Supporter

    That's bogus.

    However, the devil is definitely in the details of the storage agreement. They almost certainly won't release an item until storage, withdrawl fees, packing, shipping, and etc. are paid. The agreement will define abandonment and allow them to sell it to recover unpaid fees, etc.

    It's more "it's not really yours until they can no longer nickel and dime you to death."

    I'd hate to be the person who discovers "activity" doesn't include logging into the dashboard to check status of your vault and its considered abandoned after three years.
    tommyc03, -jeffB and masterswimmer like this.
  15. Mr. Numismatist

    Mr. Numismatist Strawberry Token Enthusiast

    -jeffB likes this.
  16. tommyc03

    tommyc03 Senior Member

    And what about if the person storing dies? Does it go into probate? Do they have any rules regarding passing on items that are listed as inheritance in their wills? No way Jose.
  17. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Brother can you spare a trime? Supporter

    Oh, I'm pretty sure the custodian is an LLC not Joe the custodian. But you can never be sure...
  18. MIGuy

    MIGuy Supporter! Supporter

    I call "Custodian"! So that's me, now that we've got that established, I'd like to discuss a raise. We may need to increase our fees.
    Burton Strauss III likes this.
  19. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Brother can you spare a trime? Supporter

    Sorry, your name isn't Joe.
    MIGuy likes this.
  20. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    Since the storage facility is not physically located in Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire or Oregon I am not sure what sales tax work SB is employing.

    Unless they mean there is not sales tax on storage fees. Could be storing personal property is not a taxable service in Texas. Or perhaps the purchase of collectable coins is exempt fron sales tax in Texas.
  21. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Brother can you spare a trime? Supporter

    The latter, but I wonder if they are wrong.

    In the Wayfair decision, the reasoning of SD - which the Supreme Court upheld - was "To that end, the Act requires out-of-state sellers to collect and remit sales tax “as if the seller had a physical presence in the state.”"

    Wayfair allows the states to enact laws that require out-of-state marketplaces/facilitators to collect/remit sales taxes if they pass some threshold (if they don't collect it you are legally obligated to pay use tax per your state's regulations - that's a different discussion).

    If you, with say an Ohio address are the buyer but ship to Texas, I don't know that Wayfair clearly said which set of rules applied. What happens if you go into a store in Ohio and buy something to ship to Texas? I'm guessing that is what would happen if you have your coins delivered to Texas.

    NY, NJ, CT used to have a tax treaty that required merchants to collect NY taxes on packages purchased by NY residents even if shipped to NJ/CT... it was technically mutual, but the NY taxes were - in those days - much higher than the other states. It ended the practice of going to Fortuneoff in Paramus to buy your jewelry and have it shipped to a friend in NJ or CT - to be picked up the next time you had dinner. Buy a diamond tennis bracelet and you could afford to BUY dinner from the savings... just saying.
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