Spotting "Doctored" Photos on Ebay

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by sf340flier, Mar 16, 2007.

  1. sf340flier

    sf340flier New Member

    I wanted to point out one technique for spotting "doctored" photos on Ebay and other online auctions.

    If you have ever attempted coin photography, then you know adjusting the white balance is important in accurately showing your coin (so is lighting and camera angle, but those are issues for another day). If an auction has more than one picture of a coin available, then study the backgrounds of each for comparison. While small differences are not uncommon, big color differences could indicate the seller is "messing" with the color balance to hide a problem or embellish an area that is not as strong with the coin in hand.

    I found an example this evening which may help illustrate this point. The particular auction I am using as an example actually isn't selling any coins, but the pictures used in the ad have been enhanced (in my opinion) to convince the buyer their product really works (which it very well may -- but that is not the point here).

    If you go to this ebay auction, you will see two pictures of the same coin purportedly being before and after photos.

    Notice the background on each. This is most likely the same background for both pictures (note the texture, details, etc.), but the white balance has been severely increased on the top picture. You can easily see how bright it is when compared to the bottom one.

    I always study the picture backgrounds (even on slabbed coins) when considering an online purchase. If I see noticeable background color differences than I become very weary. If I am really interested in the coin, I will often ask for more photos. Of course, a seller's refund policy and reputation help alleviate some of the concern.

    I know there are better photography people on these boards, so others may have other ways to spot suspicious photos.

    Also, I am not implying in any way that the seller's product does not work (I have never used it, so I wouldn't know). I just wanted to discuss my opinions on online photographic techniques and white balance:smile
     
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  3. De Orc

    De Orc Well-Known Member

    I agree the picture of the 1st coin has a washed out apperance which looks very unnatural LOL

    De Orc :D
     
  4. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    Not to be a stickler, but...

    I would respectfully suggest that the difference between the two photos in the auction you linked are not differences in white balance, but rather differences in exposure or, more commonly described as, brightness. White balance, said simply, is a "skewing" of the Red, Green, and Blue channels generally used to remove color casts from lighting, whereas brightness or exposure will increase the "lightness" or "brightness" of the photo. The photos you linked did not have a white balance adjustment made, but rather a exposure/brightness adjustment.

    That said, here's another way that photos can be enhanced -- through the use of contrast and saturation. Consider the following photographs. The first are unretouched, the second have been manipulated:

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    The first photos are completely unretouched. The second have had the contrast bumped up and the colors enhanced (specifically through the use of "color booster" in Nikon Capture -- a type of saturation adjustment).

    In reality, both pictures are fairly accurate, as the colors of the second photo can be seen with the coin held against a light "just right", but the slab the coin is in makes capturing the colors practically impossible. However, the point of showing these photos are to point out that these tools in the hands of an unscrupulous seller could be quite powerful, and one should be wary of trusting any seller's pictures and always insist on a return policy for all coins purchased/chosen through photos.

    Hope this helps...Mike

    p.s. I see the above-illustrated contrast/saturation technique used very often on toned Morgan dollars -- beware!!!

    [edited to correct typos]
     
  5. Lemmyk

    Lemmyk Senior Member

  6. Shortgapbob

    Shortgapbob Emerging Numismatist

    Excellent posts from both of you. People need to beware of photo doctoring, especially on ebay. I have seen some toned Morgans on ebay that have been "juiced up" with contrast so badly that the holders look rainbow as well as the coins.
     
  7. Lemmyk

    Lemmyk Senior Member

  8. Lemmyk

    Lemmyk Senior Member

  9. Lemmyk

    Lemmyk Senior Member

  10. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    If the color wasn't a complete giveaway...

    That coin is an obvious counterfeit -- the crude denticles, odd-shaped and too-close-to-the-denticles stars, "fat" date, and misplaced and mis-sized mintmark all say "FAKE".....Mike
     
  11. sf340flier

    sf340flier New Member

    Good point Mike. I know sometimes turning up the color balance (RGB to max) can also achieve a brightend background and I thought that could be at play in the auction. But I agree, the seller could have simply turned up the brightness either post photo with software or messed with the exposure.

    Excellent points!
     
  12. Philly Dog

    Philly Dog Coin Collector

    The scary part is this power seller has a 100 % rate
     
  13. spiraltreet

    spiraltreet New Member

    Look at the '7' on the date... thats enough for me..:D I know a little bit of multimedia and for me the best way to manipulate will be to use a software like photoshop... :secret:
     
  14. spiraltreet

    spiraltreet New Member

    by the by, isn't there a way to stop this item being sold? I dont know how it is possible..:confused:
     
  15. Lemmyk

    Lemmyk Senior Member

    What's also scary is that they are one of ebays elite "POWER SELLERS"!!!!!!!!
     
  16. lwrncwg

    lwrncwg New Member

    Take note of this sellers feedback. He is apparently located in China. Probably has some friends make these coins for him as needed.:p
     
  17. Lemmyk

    Lemmyk Senior Member

    I noticed that as well, I wasn't buying that this seller was located in Arizona.

    It's a shame you can report these buyers to ebay ( I have done it ) and they will at times take an item down but the Power sellers seem to march on and continue to be allowed to do business on ebay and rip off people who don't know what they may be buying.

    Especially these Chinese crooks who should be prosecuted for forgery or counterfeiting at the minimum.
     
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