Speaking of suspicious coins

Speaking of authentication issues, does anyone see alarm bells with these edge shots on this particular coin? I don't want to identify the actual coin yet, so these edge shots will do for now. I just want to see if anyone else has the same thoughts I do.

 

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I'll bite first. Looks cast, but probably not & ok.

 

I have seen coins like that and Curtis Clay has OKe'd them from I have shared with him on some of my pics.

Could always ask him on Forvm.

 

It's a coin I bought at a recent auction, and I don't want to post the entire coin and condemn an authentic coin as a fake in other potential customers' minds, especially if it isn't fake (sometimes the accusation does the harm, even if the evidence turns out to say something else). So it wouldn't be fair to the dealer if I decide to return it to post the entire coin, considering I'm not 100% sure of authenticity or lack thereof one way or the other (and it's a good dealer we are talking about). So I will leave the dealer ID and coin ID a mystery. Sorry guys. I hope you understand.

I will just say that the first picture (the one to the left of the screen), the line is recessed into the coin. In other words, when you touch the edge it is smooth...the line doesn't stick out from the surface and create a sharp edge as on my fake S. Severus cast denarius.

I'm just not sure what t think of this coin. I may end up returning it anyway, even if it is real, because I personally don't feel right about it. But I still wanted to take the room's temperature on it.

 

Maybe PM a photo to Mat, he can ask Curtis. I find it difficult to identify fakes but that seam wouldn't definitely put me off.

 

It's hard to either say either way with these shots alone. Edge marks and things are reason to be suspicious but it's rare that they can completely condemn a coin. I have multiple coins that I'm confident are authentic but which have edges that seen by themselves might make some members think they are fakes.

I'd love to see the whole coin even if just by PM.

 

I don't think much can be said without knowing what the coin is and seeing full pictures. Flans were made in different manners. Some will have seams; some authentic coins have edge work that might at first be viewed as suspicious. Have you asked the seller about it?

 

I think I will send Mat and Red Spork more edge shots and full coin shots tomorrow when I have the time to take them, and we'll see where we go from there with this coin. Either way, I can return it if I still don't feel comfy about it. That's the benefit of shopping from reliable auction houses, good dealers, and vcoins.com. Everyone makes a mistake once in a while (even the big names), but if you shop from the right sources you don't have to live with the mistake forever.

 

I was sarcastic but I agree with Pish. You have a nice collection Sallent don't taint it woth doubt.
I don't have the experience, but without seeing the surface. Does leave some room for uncertainty.

 

As Steve has said many time, where there is doubt, there is no doubt. Either make sure it's one way or the other or you will always wonder.

 

Im around here often through the day. I reply to PMs quick.

I bid on a Pius w/Isis Tet the other day and for some reason after I won it, cheap, I checked fake reports on Forvm and it was an exact match. Thankfully I didn't send PP payment and the seller accepted the cancel option but I got a stink reply stating it wasn't fake despite posting a link to the forvm one.

But stupid me, should have checked first despite having on watch for a week.

This was the type:
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-11149

Not my first, won't be the last of my stupidity.

 

I vote cast counterfeit.

The edges in the photo are typical of a cast coin that has the raised seam from the mould filed off. Most of the time the seam is in the center (as this one) but on more deceptive fakes it is close to one rim so the center of the edge looks more normal. There may/should also be traces of 2-3 "nub-like" bumps where the metal entered the mould and the air inside escaped.

 

Yes, there are two little bumps. I'm returning the coin and upgrading microscopes to a high end professional stereo microscope. They are not too expensive these days. Seriously, it's a must have tool.

 

Well, since you didn't ask...

A microscope will last forever if you take care of it. I recommend you purchase a brand new zoom with a camera adapter (three tube) if you take a lot of micrographs. This route is very expensive so it depends on your pockets.

The US mint used a Nikon SMZ-2 decades ago. At the time, these were $1600. I know NCS bought a new trinocular Nikon when they went into business for $3600. If you can do without the third tube, you can purchase a used SMZ-2 stereo zoom Nikon when one comes up on EBay for under $400. One of these professional instruments is well worth the money and is optically heads above the brand new $79 -$300 stuff you'll see.

If you go this route the standard 10X eyepieces will give you a range of 8X-40X. Then you can scout Ebay for 15X and 20X eyepieces to complete the set. The ONLY scope to purchase for ease of examination is a ZOOM. B&L makes a nice one too. I have one but it is bulky compared to the older Nikon. Make sure to ask the seller if the Zoom ring turns smoothly without friction or binding. My main scope was purchased in the late 1970's and I won't leave home without it. I have purchased several others since then because they were selling so cheap. The external parts are interchangeable You can even find them with the original wooden case and keys. DO NOT buy a scope with set powers such as 10X & 30X. I gave mine to the neighbor kid. You may PM me if you have questions. Good Luck.

PS I forgot to add don't get one with built in lights or a ring light unless you are going to use it for something else.

 

Interesting! Can you show the two bumps to us?

 

Well seam alone, it looks like my fake military trade token.

 

Seams are not always indicative of a fake. It is very important to remember that blank flans were cast (how else could they possibly be made? Well, I suppose with modern coins they can be punched or cut out of sheets, but that's not how it was done then). So, there are many genuine coins with residual casting seams. Such an characteristic is not condemning by itself. I would not offer an opinion on this if I could not see the coin itself. Quite impossible.

 

Exactly, which is why the image of the coin should be posted if you're so worried about it, Sallent.

 

While seams are not always indicative of a fake, please post a GENUINE silver ancient with a casting seam. NO RUSH, I'll wait, and Thanks.

PS Many professional numismatists can tell if a coin is genuine or not just by looking at its edge alone. Two perfect examples that come to mind - 8 Reales, Draped Bust dollars.