I have quite a few AV Sovereigns.... Australia 1867-S Victoria YH Wreath Australia 1877-S Victoria YH Shield
Perhaps Baldwins is reiterating Marsh's assertions for the 1923SA. Marsh lists 406 minted along with a rarity of R6. Marsh writes that the new Deputy Master, Mr. R. Pearson, in his report dated 4 Feb 1924 for year 1923 said, "during the period covered by this report only one deposit of gold was received at the mint. This consisted of old jewellery, which after the Rand Refinery's charge for refining, and the Mints charges, was found to be of the net value of 406.0s.9d. The resulting sovereigns were deliver to the depositor." Marsh goes on to state through correspondence with the SA Mint, that these must be currency sovereigns.
Thanks, they both were from "Quartermaster" collection. I wish I could have gotten more from that auction....$ ran out! Always seems to be a problem.
I believe you are correct. Out of curiosity, what is the range for an R6? I am not familiar with this rarity scale.
My understanding is that R6 is the rarest where only about 5-10 pieces are known to have survived out of a normal mintage that had public or general circulation. This of course excludes the very very limited mintages like the 1953 proof where only 2-3 sets were minted and were either held by the British Museum or in the Royal Family collections. With regards to some of the other comments on this thread, I'm afraid I do have a problem with buying raw sovereigns, or any coin for that matter especially now-a-days with so many fake and reproduction coins being offered and where there is little or no recourse should the coin turn out to be a fake. With a slabbed coin at least there is some assurance of its authenticity and grade. I recently purchased an Indian Rupee, Victoria 1840 but when it arrived, it was clearly an imitation, even to the untrained eye of a novice collector like me. However, this could only be ascertained by using a powerful loupe which showed all the telltale signs of a moulded coin as opposed to a minted one. I got a full refund but so many people are duped into buying coins for many $$$ and they often do not know the difference between a fake and the real thing. Which is why, IMHO grading is not such a bad thing as it does offer some protection to all collectors, especially those who do not have access to reputable coin dealers and wish to purchase online. Having said that, I initially purchased several normal (common) sovereigns from trusted jewelers at melt or very slightly above melt but have changed my focus to more sought after dates and types, which I prefer slabbed. I would also advise new collectors to initially buy slabbed coins or Royal Mint sealed coins before venturing into the cruel world of raw coins with the risk of buying a fake. Yes one would pay a bit more but how many of us would spot if a coin has been cleaned, or has hairlines or even some very light tooling?? Not many….of that I’m sure.
I look for the Quartermaster Sovereigns and just picked up the limited edition hard cover auction catalog. My soft cover is falling apart.
Rarity scales vary depending on who you are talking about. A R6 for Marsh is 4 to 8 examples known. R7 is of highest rarity. Also - Marsh's rarity scale is based upon VF graded coins - so many of his common coins can be condition rarities in higher grades. This is also as of 2002 and what was known at this time. His work, while very good, isn't the be all and end all. Also - if you would like the text from Marsh's inquiry to the South African Mint, I'll add it to the text above, although it does not add that much to the story.
I completely agree about raw coins. I will not buy them without being able to view them in person, weigh and measure them or unless they have very good photographs, have good feedback and accepts returns without question - full reimbursement.
Thanks, no need to add the text. Marsh needs to revisit his rarity rating for the 1923 SA. The combined population counts already exceed the top of his estimate and I am fairly confident there are more out there. There may be one or more duplicates in the counts but I don't believe enough to reduce the actual count to six or less.
I agree, the rarity rating is too high. Marsh's rating was from 2002 or before and I thought it was too high at that time. Unfortunately Marsh died and no further updates will be made. He made his rating based upon the information he had at the time. I'm sure more will turn up at some point in time. All in all, I believe the majority of his work is very good.
I am not in a position to know. My primary series is now Spanish colonial pillars, especially minors from Bolivia and Peru. My Gilboy reference assigns rarity ratings using a rather convoluted scale. It was published in 1999 and in the 14 years I have been collecting this series, doesn't remotely correspond to what I have seen or believe the actual scarcity to be based upon the available evidence which is far fewer survivors than he claims. For most coins, I believe the actual availability is probably more than most people believe. As one example, Aspen Park Coins listed several different Byzantine bronze in NGC AU. That has got to be about the most unlikely coin to survive in this condition, as unlike Greek and Roman, I have never heard of any hoards.
Thanks. As for the rarity issue, I think it is a more subjective matter since no one really knows how many units of any year survived. I guess one could only count those coins that were graded or held in well known collections. Look at the 1894 Rouble. Many experts say only 3007 were ever minted but they turn up VERY regularly for sale. Agreed many are fakes but there are also many that are graded. Subsequent opinion suggests that they continued to be minted in 1895 as well but with 1894 date till the 1895 dies were available, and possibly several million 1894 roubles were minted in 1895. I take the view that if a coin is from a known small mintage run and seldom comes up for sale or auction then it is rare and worth collecting. Rather simplistic but effective. A real world example of this is that although the 1859 Ansell is listed as a rare and desirable coin, in actual fact the 1841 or 1839 are harder to find and command a much higher price. BTW I find this a fairly accurate, handy and quick, if somewhat basic, reference guide: http://www.cruzis-coins.com/sovs/Sovmintage.html
Sorry no Guineas or Unites here. I have my hands full with the sovereigns. I also use that website now and then. I rely a lot on Marsh, auction results and other more recently published books. From what you've shown so far, it is very impressive.
Seriously, so you like the little collection I've put together so far??!! Wow thanks. There are still some dates that I really want to acquire before slowing down and becoming more selective.....and of course having used up most of my spare cash...
