Sometimes we do a disservice to newer collectors.

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Beardigger, May 9, 2021.

  1. Beardigger

    Beardigger Well-Known Member

    I have seen several threads from members (mostly new) asking about value of certain items. (mostly doubling). More often then not....they are told that it is Machine Doubling and is only worth face value.......HOWEVER that is no longer the case. All it takes is a look at eBay sold listings to see that MD is actually bringing a premium.I think this is because new collectors are looking for this kind of error. YES it may not bring a premium that a true doubled die will bring, but it has a premium none the less.
    I know this is not done with any malice toward the poster, and this is the way it has been for many years, but coin collecting is a fluid hobby and ever changing. Many new collectors collect anything that is doubled, the more obvious the better, weather it be MD or not. A true doubled die is a rare find ,so rare that newer collectors are willing to pay premiums for MD coins.

    What brings me to create this thread is a member recently posted a question about weather her unopened rolls of statehood quarters were worth selling. Many members answered they were only worth face value.......but when I checked eBay sold listings, unopened rolls were going for up to $20+ depending on the state.

    Many times we give the answer that there is no extra value, but things change quickly and just because we see it as NAV, doesn't mean that somebody else is not willing to pay a premium for it. Only with investigation of what things are actually being sold for can we determine if there is a premium or not.

    I think we have to open our minds to new trends in coin collecting to be able to best answer our fellow members. Not everybody who buys a MD coin is a Bidiot! collecting trends change, as do coin values! You can't get the same $$ for a Wisconsin extra leaf quarter today that you could 2 years ago.

    Just saying we need to guide the newer collectors in a more responsible way.
     
    GoldFinger1969, PamR, JeffC and 12 others like this.
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  3. Inspector43

    Inspector43 73 Year Collector Supporter

    Anything that does not meet the design parameters set out by the US Mint, and is subsequently released to circulation, should be classified as a Mint Error. Also, if the released product is intentional, such as a re-punched mint mark, it should not be considered an error.

    This is very general, but, I agree with @Beardigger. I consider MD to be errors. I also agree that they have added value only to those who like that sort of thing. I keep all on mine just for fun.
     
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  4. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    I agree but with the caveat then that we cannot take the time to do the research so someone else can realize a $10 profit off a roll of quarters. The best that I can say is, "in the past that is known as worthless doubling with no added value, however there are people on EBay who might pay a premium. I would caution against buying such common items ( they minted X billion of those quarters) at a a premium as an investment. People have various collecting interests. Sorry I cannot be more specific but my collecting interests are not in that area."
     
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  5. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky Supporter

    I do not know if MD is worth the extra money ? You can sell un-open rolls on Ebay, but not sure if you will get buyers ??? The fees on Ebay will eat up your profits so I am not sure it is worth thee effort in doing so ?
     
  6. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    You make a good point.
     
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  7. Beardigger

    Beardigger Well-Known Member

    Ebay fees are 10% and paypal is 3%. for 13% total. Most the time there is no fee for insertion.
    Unopened rolls are sold a lot on eBay usually in the $15 range depending. They sell regularly. Charge cost for shipping and there is room for profit. As I said......some of the state quarter rolls go for $20+ ea. More then enough room for profit, whereas selling at face guarantees no profit.
    Up to the seller to decide if it is worth the time or effort.
    I'm told that both Craigslist and facebook marketplace can be used for selling too.......I have not used either for coins, but it is also and option.
     
  8. Beardigger

    Beardigger Well-Known Member

    Which is a valid response. It takes me just a minute to look for the eBay sold listings for something, then I will usually post a link to them so the poster can look at the info and make an informed decision. I realize many don't have time to do that.......but I like to because it helps keep me informed as to what is selling and for how much.
     
  9. desertgem

    desertgem MODERATOR Senior Errer Collecktor Moderator

    I seriously doubt that the current method of producing coins and spitting them into a ballast bag leaves many without a mark made by another such coin. That is why MS70 is more rare than PF-70. If those marks are to be seen as a "mint error", they would be almost every coin and worth less than a non-error. All of the error sites like VV would have billions of variations to search through. Jim
     
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  10. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Duly noted! In the future, I shall amend my response to newbies who want to know such values......"Why ask me? Go ask the bidiots on FleaBay!"
     
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  11. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    I believe that most of the sales of MD on sites like eBay are to new collectors who do not understand how they occur. With the proliferation of "get rich from pocket change" you tubers, who rarely take they time to explain WHY certain coins are valuable, new collectors only see the word "Doubled". I would highly doubt that an experienced collector who understands the minting process would say to themself, " I'm going to start purchasing MD coins for my collection"

    Also, where are the "Wanted to buy" offers for MD coins? If there was an established base of serious collectors, wouldn't you expect dealers to be interested in purchasing for resale. No, these are being sold by people who find them in change and hope they can make a buck from the uninformed.

    Those are my thoughts on the subject.
     
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  12. Vertigo

    Vertigo Did someone say bust?

    I sell on ebay. Nice coins. A lot of CAC coins. You'd be surprised what people will pay.
     
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  13. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    I'm glad to see that you said "people" and not numismatists.
     
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  14. Maxfli

    Maxfli Supporter! Supporter

    Good point.
     
  15. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Supporter! Supporter

    Like the old saying goes: "It's worth what someone is willing to pay for it." If new collectors what to spend a premium for a MD coin, that's up to them. Remember that some will buy a Lincoln "poor mans 55" for a premium. Just saying.
     
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  16. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Just because some neophytes on eBay get into a bidding over machine doubled coins does not make it a stable market. I will believe that it’s a real market when dealers start offering to buy those coins, especially the ones where it takes a 10X glass to see it.

    There are many very minor, but legitimate doubled die coins. Those coins are hardly recognized, except in specialist books, and the market for them is very thin and limited. The situation for machine doubled coins is even more spread out.

    When I became a dealer, I didn’t much about machine doubling because doubled dies had never been an interest of mine when I was pure collector. I found some machined doubled Mercury Dimes that I thought were doubled dies. A dealer, who was an expert in modern coinage, explained the difference to me.

    You are free to buy and collect whatever you want. There is nothing wrong with that. The trouble comes if you start spending serious money that turns into a black hole. When then happens, some people get very sore at the hobby. Their anger is misdirected if they ignore advice from those who have been at this for a while.

    Some of us are here to warn you of the pitfalls. If you choose to ignore the warnings, that’s all we can do for you. The thing about machine doubling is that the list of coins that have it is almost endless.

    Unlike doubled dies, which are a product of a die preparation error, and a bit unusual, they are a much common occurrence that happens when a coin press gets slightly out of whack. When something is very common, it usually does not bring sustained high prices.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
  17. Vertigo

    Vertigo Did someone say bust?

    I'm not the seller nor am I a bidder. But here is an example of a premium. What some people will pay over
    Screenshot_20210509-174448_One UI Home.jpg
     
  18. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Note that I did not mention your inclusion about certified coins. When was the last time that you saw machine doubling certified on a slab?
     
    johnmilton likes this.
  19. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    A PCGS MS65 with a green bean will get a premium every time...
     
  20. JeffC

    JeffC Hogwarts Numismatist Apprentice Supporter

    While it makes perfect sense, I don't know why that never occurred to me before. This is one of those statements on CoinTalk I'll forever remember.
     
  21. PamR

    PamR Well-Known Member

    Thank you!
     
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